Magnehance

Maybe it involves a powerful electromagnetic behind your headboard, and a Prince Albert (penis piercing)?

Think about it....

I know something it WON'T attract: intelligent, skeptical consumers.

What about the actual research that they cite at this site? Doesn't that lend credibility?

Hmm...there's iron in the blood right? I suppose that if they're thinking these 'special' magnets will pull that blood...you know...then it might make things...well, you still know. That's just my theory on why they think this will work. I personally don't think this would work. Also, if you were wearing the device in public...would if affect other guys?!?

RE: Iron in the blood: You can try this at home. Cut yourself and bleed sufficiently into a saucer. Take one magnet, wave it over your blood and marvel as nothing happens.

Oh, and the "...actual research that they cite". I quote directly from the second link - "Conclusion: ...It is uncertain whether this response is due to specific or non-specific (placebo) effects."

Peter,I can't stop the bleeding. Getting diz z y................

Well, there's a whole world of magnetic devices, and Mr. Nikken has made his mark, based on the "need." There is evidence--not just placebo evidence--that magnetic therapy does work, at least to reduce pain. I guess this device might affect other guys, if you were to hug them, tightly. To each his own.

JD said;

"There is evidence--not just placebo evidence--that magnetic therapy does work..."

This is news to me. I hope you're not counting anecdotal evidence or testimonials from the people who've used magnets. As far as I can tell, there's not a single reputable scientific study to show ANY positive effect of magnets on pain. Of course, I could be wrong, and I would be happy if you could point one out for me.

Here's an article that seems to put a negative light on the magnet phenomenon.

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/magnet.html

Granted, it's from quackwatch, so it'll obviously be slanted, but there are at least references.

JoeSixpack commented:

> I would be happy if you could point one out

I found this site, via the magnehance.com site (on the Links page). It's got some info and references, suggesting that there is evidence for the effectiveness of magnetic products:

http://www.therionresearch.com/learning_center_scientific_studies_static.html

Personally, I don't own any magnetic, therapy devices, so I try to be objective.

"suggesting that there is evidence". So that's not evidence then is it? It's not a hoax it is a scam.

the Therion link you gave is just people trying to sell you magnets. its not a peer-review scientific paper just trying to sell you stuff. of course they say it works they are trying to sell you their magnets. did i mention they are just trying to sell you stuff?

Well, you can't use my choice of words ("suggesting that there is evidence") to dismiss the research. Regarding the "scientific paper," why doesn't
J Altern Complement Med 2001 Feb;7(1):53-64, or
Altern Ther Health Med 2002 Jul-Aug;8(4):50-5
count as such? In fact, they are. They may not be peer-reviewed--I don't know the journals--but they do point to significant results (p < .05).

If it makes people feel good/better, than it might be worthwhile. Besides, people actually bought pet rocks--one of the biggest jokes I'd ever seen.

JD sez:
"Regarding the "scientific paper," why doesn't
J Altern Complement Med 2001 Feb;7(1):53-64, or
Altern Ther Health Med 2002 Jul-Aug;8(4):50-5
count as such? ... They may not be peer-reviewed--"
JD, you've just answered your own question.

JD said:

"If it makes people feel good/better, than it might be worthwhile."

Can you say "placebo effect?" More to the point, using your logic, no one should ever go to a doctor so long as there are faith healers in business. So what if they don't actually HEAL anything? They DO convince some people that they're bettter, right?

"Besides, people actually bought pet rocks--one of the biggest jokes I'd ever seen."

A pet rock is a novelty item. No one who bought a pet rock thought it could cure their erectile dysfunction. Big difference. It was SUPPOSED to be a joke.

JD's comment about the papers being published in the two journals and "may not be peer-reviewed" suggested to me he meant may or may not be peer reviewed. At least I'm not the only one who goofs in messages. And if I remember my biology from high school (the one that taught me there are no pain receptors inside the body) then the reason for the "lift" isn't blood flow to the specific place, it's that blood is prevented from leaving by special valves the slow blood flow down, magnatism has no chance to affect the valves unless it somehow triggers their closure.

"Granted, it's from quackwatch, so it'll obviously be slanted, but there are at least references."

Slanted? Towards what? Reality? Science? Facts? I don't see any slant to that site, just the truth.

Generally, a Journal is a publication that prints peer-reviewed articles in a given field. A Journal that prints non-peer-reviewed articles isn't really much of a Journal in the modern, accepted definition of the term.

>>>More to the point, using your logic, no one should ever go to a doctor so long as there are faith healers in business. So what if they don't actually HEAL anything? They DO convince some people that they're bettter, right? <<<

No, using his logic, people should go to doctors AND always at least try a placebo just on the off chance that it might help. Also, faith healers may be placebos, but not all placebos are faith healers. (Sugar pills are the most often mentioned placebo.)

Not necessary to leap to ridiculous extremes just to make your opponent in an argument look bad. Save the really aggressive debate guerrilla tactics for Republicans and others who deserve it. 😊

So I went to their site. I only clicked on the "Products" link. The first thing I noticed was they have a "Products for Males" section. This implies they might have somehting in the works for females. The mind boggles.

So I check out the product itself. It's a cotton bag, a chunk of flexible magnet, and 20 feet of double adhesive tape. I can only assume that this tape is to hold the bag in place while you let the magnet do its thing. (I'm staying out of the magnets for medicine debate.) What bothers me is the thought of taping anything down there. I mean, what if the tape slips and frabs a bit of hair down there? Ack!

Barghest said:

"No, using his logic, people should go to doctors AND always at least try a placebo just on the off chance that it might help. Also, faith healers may be placebos, but not all placebos are faith healers. (Sugar pills are the most often mentioned placebo.)"

It seemed to me as if he was saying that if something makes you feel better, then go for it. I didn't see anything that said that you should ALSO see a doctor, but it's always possible that I misunderstood.

"Not necessary to leap to ridiculous extremes just to make your opponent in an argument look bad. Save the really aggressive debate guerrilla tactics for Republicans and others who deserve it."

I didn't think I was jumping to extremes but I concede that I may have misunderstood his point.

As for Republicans, while some of my best friends belong to the GOP (no, that isn't sarcasm), I agree with you that a lot of them (not all) deserve a real good dressing-down.

Actually, what he said was, if it makes people feel better, it might be worthwhile.

Which, to my ears, meant that if some silly placebo effect actually helps people and doesn't hurt them, it might be worth it to try it. Go to the doctor too, of course (he never said we didn't need doctors anymore), but if you really think wearing a magnet hat or saying a rosary makes you feel better, then do that too.

I don't care how stupid something is, if it actually helps people in a real and meaningful way, I'm for it. (Which is why I support people's religious leanings. As long as it does good and no harm, I don't care how goofy your story about Angels and Lost Tribes and Gold Spectacles and Thetans is, you go for it.)

The Republican comment, of course, was made with tongue-near-cheek. Heh.

Suppose something made you FEEL better, but you WEREN'T actually better? Would THAT be a good thing? Yeah, it's hypothetical, but still...

That's kind of what happens a lot of the time with the people brought up on stage by "faith healers." With the surge of adrenaline and the excitement of being on stage, standing next to a Close Friend of God's, some people FEEL better for a while (depending, of course, on exactly what ailment they have).

When there have been follow-ups done on these people, the results weren't encouraging. They probably would have been better off to have seen a regular doctor.

I just wanted to add that, if there really is a Hell, I'd like to think that the hottest part is reserved for "faith healers" and people who sell useless crap like erectile dysfunction magnets. Preying on the sick and infirm is one of the worst forms of evil.

I have to interject something here about the testability of magnetic therapy. I think it would be impossible to do a truly double-blind test because it is so simple to determine whether a magnet is real or not.

Also, I notice that there seems to be NO WAY to put a magnet near a person that DOESN'T "help" them.

Unless they have a pacemaker....

Personally,
I'm gonna get one. If it doesn't work for me, I'll use the pouch for my loose change (keeps it out of sight and just might impress the girlfriend).

>>>Suppose something made you FEEL better, but you WEREN'T actually better? Would THAT be a good thing? Yeah, it's hypothetical, but still...<<<

Which is why no one should ever rely on hoodoo alone, and only use it as a supplement IN ADDITION TO legitimate medical care.

Also, feeling better IS being actually better. Human suffering apart from physiological problems is also something that should be treated and relieved. If it weren't, doctors wouldn't use anasthaetic, or prescribe painkillers.

Suppose my grandma is in pain from inoperable, terminal cancer. There's nothing medical that can be done for her. Would you want her to stay home from the tent revival just to suit your own ideological predilections? Doesn't seem very defensible.

Of course, hopefully such infirm souls also have people to look after them, to make sure they're not spending thousands of dollars on psychic surgery or that crystal thing from the Andy Kaufman movie....

I'm just amused the idea of two guys wearing these ridiculous things, walking too close together, and finding themselves magnetically linked at the crotch.

Barghest said:

"Of course, hopefully such infirm souls also have people to look after them, to make sure they're not spending thousands of dollars on psychic surgery or that crystal thing from the Andy Kaufman movie...."

Andy was a friend of mine. I've always thought that was one of the saddest parts of his passing. Oddly, for all his challenging of preconceptions, he WAS a believer.

Carl Fink said:

"I'm just amused the idea of two guys wearing these ridiculous things, walking too close together, and finding themselves magnetically linked at the crotch."

Maybe they should market it as a gay dating aid. They could get Jeff Gannon to endorse it.

Actually, I own a 'keychain camera'.. they're pretty worthless, but you can buy one for twenty bucks, nowadays. Resolution is about 120x100, just enough to make a decent portrait photo of someone if you do it right..

As for the magna-gizmo, just be glad that the era of the Revigorator is over and done..

I feel I need to say a few additional things about "faith healing." If you're truly interested in this subject and the damage "faith healers" do, there's a fantastic commentary on James Randi's website right now. Go to randi.org and click on "commentary" near the top left of the front page.

OK, with that out of the way... I think any of us can certainly understand how a person who has been told that they are terminal could turn to a "faith healer." The prospect of dying is very frightening. There are, however, a few things to remember about them.

First is that "faith healers" do not work for free. Many of them require "donations" for their "work." A person who is dying has very likely already incurred great expense and giving even more money to a charlatan is almost certainly a burden for them and/or their family. Since they can't heal you, it's money wasted.

Supporting them means that other people will likely go to them, causing them also to waste their money. Not good.

Supporting nonsense sets back the cause of truth, not an insignificant thing in itself. Every dollar spent on voodoo is a dollar that can't be spent on REAL research.

As I said, I think anyone can understand that a terminally ill person might seek out "alternative" treatment when science has run out of answers. That doesn't mean, however, that it's right for fakes, phonies, frauds and charlatans to take their money.

Seriously, you really should check out what Randi has to say this week. Some of it is extremely touching.

Cranky said:

"Seriously, you really should check out what Randi has to say this week. Some of it is extremely touching."

I would add, not just touching, but heartbreaking.

Another thing to remember about faith "healers" is that people are sometimes mis-diagnosed with terminal diseases because of false positives on tests or sloppy lab technicians (and, gasp, even incompetent doctors). This is why it's important to get a second opinion.

Say a person gets told that he has a brain tumor because of a mix-up with the film by the x-ray tech. He goes home and says the rosary all night and the next morning he has an appointment to get the tumor imaged in a CAT scan or MRI. There is no trace of the tumor now.

A religious person will credit his "cure" to faith. A sceptic will say "then who DOES have the brain tumor"?

I guess we're off topic now. That last post had nothing to do with magnetic penis enhancement.

Placebos (and that's probably how we should clasify faith healing as well as magnetic penis gizmos) are fine (often, they really make someone feel better) as long as they aren't used to steal money from people, and as long as they don't persuade someone to forego legitimate medical treatment. There are numerous cases on record of people who had faith healers or quacks tell them they were cured; then stopped taking their medicine and died.
When my grandma was terminally ill, I was greatful both for the hospital chaplain who came in to pray for her to feel better and for the nurse who came in to inject her with morphine.

"Magne-Pants" "Our business is rising and getting stronger, and we plan to thrust our products where no man has gone before" "Let's get this straight: Magne-Pants means business, so climb on board. Tell a friend"

I was married to a hospital pharmacy director for over a decade and I know that they keep a supply of different appearing placebos in stock. Doctors sometimes prescribe them for patients who refuse to believe that they don't need some sort of medication. That, however, is very different from "faith healing" which is--there's just no other way to say this--taking money under false pretenses.

I should modify that a bit. Those who are knowing fakes are taking money under false pretenses. Some people honestly believe that they have "special powers." While they may be deluded, there IS a difference between them and the conscious fakes.

I always got the feeling that I was taking sugar pills. That or I'm immune to 99 out of 100 different types of medications. Excedrin being the one that I can actually take & feel like it did some good. I always get the side effects of medication...but I never really saw a change in my symptoms or sickness.

what's sad is that i know this guy. He's my psych professor.