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Angel Light Sees Through Walls
image Troy Hurtubise claims that he's invented a machine, dubbed the Angel Light, that can see through walls. It doesn't really matter what the wall is made of: wood, ceramic, steel, tin, titanium, even lead. The Angel Light can see right through it, just as if a window had opened up in the wall. Of course, he built this thing in his garage (where else?). The idea for the invention came to him in a dream, and he built it without the aid of any blueprints, drawings or schematics. Although Troy may hope to one day be known throughout the world as the inventor of the Angel Light, he's already well known as the inventor of the URSUS MARK VII, a suit that can help a man withstand the attack of a Grizzly Bear (see that suit in the right corner of the thumbnail? That's the Grizzly suit). So from Grizzly Bear suits to Machines That Can See Through Walls. No one can accuse him of not having an interesting resume.
Categories: Technology
Posted by The Curator on Wed Jan 19, 2005
Cranky Media Guy! Where the hell have you been? We're being over run by the credulous here, and you take a holiday.
Posted by JoeSixpack  on  Sun Feb 06, 2005  at  05:35 PM
JoeSixpack said:

"Cranky Media Guy! Where the hell have you been? We're being over run by the credulous here, and you take a holiday."

Sor-ry! I was in Vegas with Alan Abel and a few other like-minded individuals for the first ever meeting of the International Association of Professional Pranksters (yes, really). Also, I wasn't entirely sure that my meager efforts at injecting sanity into the easily-convinced were appreciated. What did I miss?
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Mon Feb 07, 2005  at  06:25 AM
Could this possibly be an effect related to entanglement of photons? The same effect that has been used in the successful teleportaion experiments?

If the device (hypothetically Im saying here, I don't know if this is a credible experiment, but it raises interesting questions) could entangle photons across wavelengths so that they traded properties and exchanged information at a distance, could the penetrating wavelengths relay information to the visible spectrum photons which reflect back to the viewer?
Posted by Bob  in  Ontario Canada.  on  Mon Feb 07, 2005  at  07:21 PM
Ok. Troy Hurtubise appears to be a crackpot. He works outside of established science, he has extravagant experimental methods, he makes outrageous claims about his inventions,he claims htat angel-light came to him in a recurring dream, he makes outrageous claims about people watching/following/stealing from/bugging him and to top it all off he has a bizarre haircut.

What would I say to convince you that his invention works? Nothing.. I don't know if it does. I have not seen it yet. But what can I say about Troy?

Fire-Paste works just as he claims.

LIMBC (armor cushions) stand up to 4 sticks of dynamite/rifle fire/shotgun blasts

His Ursus Mk VII Is possibly the greatest contribution science has had to physical comedy ever.and it looks cool.

His planned G-Man suit could save countless lives of battlefield soldiers if properly developed.

He is a freakin' weirdo.

All I am saying is that this man has made outlandish claims in the past and has been proven right.

Now he has made the most outlandish claim of his career.

I can't believe this thing works exactly the way he says it does. But I will wait untill the demonstration on the 17th of this month to give him the oppourtunity to prove his claims.
Posted by Jeff  on  Mon Feb 07, 2005  at  08:05 PM
Bob, Do you have ANY clue what you're talking about? How, exactly, DO photons get entangled across wavelengths?
Posted by JoeSixpack  on  Mon Feb 07, 2005  at  11:12 PM
Actually I don't know the mechanism for 'entanglement' I don't know if it can be accomplished with photons of differing wavelengths or for tht matter how it is done with similar photons. It just occurred to me that two photons of differing wavelengths might share a transfer of information and properties similarly to the entangled photons in the teleportation experiments.

Do you know the entanglement mechanism? Can you enlighten us?
Posted by Bob  on  Mon Feb 07, 2005  at  11:30 PM
Isn't this how science works?

Formulate a hypothesis, and the try to disprove it through experimentaion?
Posted by Bob  on  Mon Feb 07, 2005  at  11:41 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entanglement

The two photons have to start out as one, and then decay into two lower energy photons through interaction with an atom.

Mr Angel light isn't doing anything of the sort. He's made a big prop and is making claims about it that he can't back up. You're formulating a hypothesis to explain the principles behind a non-working item. You may as well try to figure out how a perpetual motion machine works. In two words, it doesn't.
Posted by JoeSixpack  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  12:33 AM
Bob said:

"Isn't this how science works?

"Formulate a hypothesis, and the try to disprove it through experimentaion?"

OK, so what's Hurtubise's hypothesis? Near as I can tell, he doesn't have one. Doesn't he claim that he doesn't know how the device works and that it came to him through recurring dreams? Uh, exactly how does one test THAT?

Besides, all this theorizing about how the thing *might* work amounts to nothing but mental masturbation unless and until he actually DEMONSTRATES that the thing is something other than a big fake prop.
Posted by crankymediaguy  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  03:26 AM
From the late Carl Sagan:

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Amen, Brother Sagan.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  07:06 AM
"The two photons have to start out as one, and then decay into two lower energy photons through interaction with an atom."


Thankyou. That clears that up
Posted by Bob  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  08:34 AM
just reading part of that article, could ,theoretically again, one of the entangled photons, by repetition of the process be further split and decayed into a lower state? what would then happen to the othe entangled photon?
Posted by Bob  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  08:44 AM
Bob said:

"just reading part of that article, could ,theoretically again, one of the entangled photons, by repetition of the process be further split and decayed into a lower state? what would then happen to the othe entangled photon?"

Hey, *I* have a theory, too. My theory is that, somewhere up in Canada, there is a guy desperate for attention. I further theorize that this guy takes a bunch of old "scientific" crap and combines it into a fake "machine" that he then says can see through walls.

Next, a bunch of extremely credulous people completely accept what he says, even though he provides precisely NO evidence that the thing works. These same people come up with elaborate fantasies about how this "machine" works, again even though it hasn't been shown to work at all.

Nah, that can't be it! Something as wacky as that just CAN'T be true, can it? Clearly the thing actually works and Mr. Hurtubise has NO obligation to actually demonstrate it to the world. His word is good enough. If I want to believe that a machine can see through walls, then it can. Period. No evidence supplied, none required. And somewhere many angels dance on the head of a pin.
Posted by crankymediaguy  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  04:48 PM
"Nah, that can't be it! Something as wacky as that just CAN'T be true, can it? Clearly the thing actually works and Mr. Hurtubise has NO obligation to actually demonstrate it to the world. His word is good enough. If I want to believe that a machine can see through walls, then it can. Period. No evidence supplied, none required. And somewhere many angels dance on the head of a pin."

THE DEMONSTRATION IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE PLACE ON FEBRUARY 17 2005.

from my post above....

" Now he has made the most outlandish claim of his career."

"I can't believe this thing works exactly the way he says it does. But I will wait untill the demonstration on the 17th of this month to give him the oppourtunity to prove his claims."
Posted by Jeff  on  Tue Feb 08, 2005  at  04:58 PM
Jeff said:

"THE DEMONSTRATION IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE PLACE ON FEBRUARY 17 2005.:

The key word in that sentence is "supposed." Would you care to bet me that one of two things will happen:

1. The "demonstration" never occurs.
2. The "demonstration" happens, but the machine doesn't work and Hurtubise makes some ridiculous claim as to why--something like "vibrations" were wrong, etc.

Putting that aside for the moment, my point was and still is that many people here (and presumably other places, too) have defended this absurd claim of being able to see through solid objects despite there being NO evidence shown so far. The rational position is that the claims for the machine are extraordinary so therefore belief in its supposed "abilities" will be withheld unless and until it is demonstrated to do what it is allegedly capable of doing.

I've said it before but I'll repeat it. IF this thing worked, that would be wonderful; it would greatly advance science. I would be as happy as anyone to see that happen. Occam's Razor suggests, however, that the likelihood of that happening is approximately zero. In other words, I ain't buying.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  04:41 AM
1. The "demonstration" never occurs.
2. The "demonstration" happens, but the machine doesn't work and Hurtubise makes some ridiculous claim as to why--something like "vibrations" were wrong, etc.

You forgot number three;

3. Feb 17 passes and when people ask him how the demonstration went a few days later (there will be no real journalists present) he says "It went great! There were some observers from the US and French military and they told me it was really promising and that we would have to rewrite the physics books because this invention is so amazing"

Of course, we'll have to take his word for it, and maybe Phil Novak's, too.
Posted by JoeSixpack  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  08:45 AM
If it works I'll poop myself with glee.

But then I'll have to move to France, because they'll posess the most powerful weapon ever wrought by man and you just KNOW they'll use it.

They'll turn the US and Canada into "Robo-France 9000."

There Berets will be mandatory, and unshaven women with cheese-smelling breath will be the norm. All TV's will play Jerry Lewis comedies 24/7 only stopping briefly to inform the conquered populace of the new Ursus MK XI's victories over the former ex-Soviet republics.

... ok, scratch that first comment. If it works I'll poop myself with terror.
Posted by Shazbot!  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  02:29 PM
Jeff said,

>>Fire-Paste works just as he claims.<<

I was wondering when someone would assert this about the Fire Paste. Took you long enough Jeff! grin

'Way back when, on the BayToday site and on iidb.org, I posted the following (and I wish I had said it here as well):

"In short, I haven't seen *any* convincing evidence that *any* of Hurtubise's 'inventions' have *any* applicability in the real world..."

...but I was sure someone would call me on the Fire Paste. Nobody did.

Of all of Troy's stuff, the Fire Paste is the only invention that *may* be somewhat legit IMO. His demonstrations of it resisting heat are somewhat compelling IMO but with some reservations, especially in light of his history with the quality of his "demonstrations."

Also, the "documentary" on his Fire Paste includes some seemingly bona-fide scientists discussing its properties and verifying that it does indeed have fire-resistant qualities.

Here are some of my reservations about the Fire Paste:

1. Is it really anything new? We have no actual information about its materials and the manufacturing process. It could be pretty run-of-the-mill stuff.

2. As far as I'm able to determine, *all* of Troy's "demonstrations" are staged, contrived etc. In the Discovery Channel "documentary" we see him throwing a blow torch flame at paste on his skin, on a fake "doll house" etc. But we know nothing about the actual facts of these demonstrations. How hot was the flame? Was the demonstration monitored by a credible neutral third party? What was the actual composition of the "doll houses?" I may not be this skeptical if I saw the same demonstration from a credible source, but I've seen so many false claims from this guy that I don't trust him or any "demonstration" that he has obviously orchestrated. If he's controlling the demonstration I feel forced to take the results with a heavy dose of salt.

3. We have the same problem with the Fire Paste "demonstrations" that we do with the LIMBC "demonstrations:" they appear to work under extremely contrived circumstances but the "demonstrations" do *nothing* to show that these invenstions actually work in real-world applications/situations. Troy says in the radio interview that "some guy in Canada" owns the Fire Paste formula. So, who's using it? And for what? And...if there were any scientific or industry publications about the Fire Paste I think we'd have heard about them by now. If it were that great ("20 years ahead of NASA") then surely information about it would be available from *some* credible source.

Once again, Troy is making extraordinary claims and is not providing any extraordinary proof. I am unconvinced that the Fire Paste has any real value.
Posted by intjudo  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  03:39 PM
So, if anyone's still interested enough, here's a challenge, I'll repeat it:

>>I haven't seen *any* convincing evidence that *any* of Hurtubise's 'inventions' have *any* applicability in the real world.<<

Any takers? *Prove* me wrong if you can!

Oh, and it's perfectly OK to wait until Feb. 17 if you'd like
Posted by intjudo  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  03:39 PM
Intojudo said
"2. As far as I'm able to determine, *all* of Troy's "demonstrations" are staged, contrived etc. In the Discovery Channel "documentary" we see him throwing a blow torch flame at paste on his skin, on a fake "doll house" etc. But we know nothing about the actual facts of these demonstrations. How hot was the flame? Was the demonstration monitored by a credible neutral third party? What was the actual composition of the "doll houses?" I may not be this skeptical if I saw the same demonstration from a credible source, but I've seen so many false claims from this guy that I don't trust him or any "demonstration" that he has obviously orchestrated. If he's controlling the demonstration I feel forced to take the results with a heavy dose of salt."

If you watched and paid attention to the Discovery Channel demonstrations of firepaste, you may have gleaned the following tidbits of important information.

yes the experiments were carried out under Troy's conditions, which included that

1) the Discovery channel bring their own 'Brazing Torch' to carry out the experiments.

2} that Discovery Channel personnel operated said torch.

A quick check online informed me that 'brazing torches operate at temperature ranges in excess of 3200 degrees celsius (6000 Farenheight)

also
The "doll house experiment" was carried out twice with nearly identical subjects. (ie the houses) and under the same conditions, the protected house was undamaged- except for a thick grey goo covering the whole thing.

I do not think that firepaste has all the practical applications that Mr. Hurtubise claims. the substance is too brittle for many applications. I certainly don't think it could stand up to re-entry (maybe the heat- but not the friction)

While I would admit that Mr. Hurtubise is an outlandish individual, and does make extraordinary claims, the guy is a scrap metal dealer from North Bay. Everyone seems to think that he pulls off his demonstrations with some magic trick. Well then it is a pretty impressive trick. and I'd like to see you replicate his results for the Discovery Channel cameras.
Posted by Jeff  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  04:05 PM
As for the Ripley's demonstration, everybody remembers that they hit him (in the Ursus mkVII)with a BMW. does anyone recall that the BMW was suspended from two cotton make-up remover pads treated with his formula 1313?

No, everyone just saw the funny man get hit by car ha ha ha ......
Posted by Jeff  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  06:27 PM
He should reclassify the Ursus suits as car-proof instead of Bear-proof. The suits have been hit by automobiles what, 20 or so times, and been attacked by ZERO bears.
Posted by Shazbot!  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  07:48 PM
Joe Sixpack said:

"You forgot number three;

"3. Feb 17 passes and when people ask him how the demonstration went a few days later (there will be no real journalists present) he says "It went great! There were some observers from the US and French military and they told me it was really promising and that we would have to rewrite the physics books because this invention is so amazing"

Yeah, I forgot that possibility. Actually, that's likely to happen. After all, he never said that any press or other verifiable observers would be present for the "demonstration." The sad thing is, even if he pulls that cheap theatrical stunt, there will still be people who will defend him.
Posted by crankymediaguy  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  08:14 PM
wink

Hey, may I join the conversation? One detail has been unnoticed yet: the angel light seems to have similar proportions as some claimed UFO contacts: electronics fail to work, for example.

I suggest that this whole matter is a specimen of an ALIEN TECHNOLOGY, which we just cannot comprehend. cool hmm

Remember it was given tu US through dream. This proves it must be unhuman and even unnatural knowledge.
Posted by Cosmic contact  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  09:45 PM
re

"I suggest that this whole matter is a specimen of an ALIEN TECHNOLOGY, which we just cannot comprehend"

perhaps the interplanetary force of pyramid power and mysterious niceness has given troy this dream-gift as a weapon to save earth from the imminent evil space bear invasion mentioned in an earlier post.

"gee, pa, what are we gonna do? them evil space bears has killed the sherrif and stampeded all the cattle!!!"

"don't fret son, Troy's comin', and he's bringin' his new gun!"
Posted by geebs  in  north bay, ontario  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  10:50 PM
Jeff,

You said,

>>Fire-Paste works just as he claims.<<

...then you said,

>>I do not think that firepaste has all the practical applications that Mr. Hurtubise claims.<<

So, I'd like to ask you to clarify what it is that you're asserting.

*I'm* asserting that there is no credible evidence to support the claim that *any* of Troy's inventions are of *any* value in a real world application. In particular I'd like to discuss the Fire Paste, because I think there's a remote chance there might be something to it. But I doubt it and want to know if there is any extraordinary evidence to support Troy's extraordinary claims.

I guess I'll have to do my homework and take another look at the Fire Paste demo on Discovery Channel...I don't think it constitutes extraordinary evidence...in the meantime please clarify your position on the fire paste; it's a bit vague.
Posted by intjudo  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  11:00 PM
OK here is what I meant.

Fire-paste, as Troy claims, dissapates vast quantities of heat, it relation to its volume. This has been shown in some of the demonstration where the brazing torch was turned on a shield of fire paste no more than an inch thick mounted on a hockey helmet that Troy was wearing. In 10 minutes, the temperature under the helmet had risen from 89.5 degrees F to a whopping 100.5 degrees F. (most likely due to his head being in the helmet)

The discovery channel brought Troy to the university of Toronto and put samples of the paste into a mass spectrograph and electron microscope.

the spectrograph revealed a fairly high component of bromine, and could not identify about 20% of the sample.

the microscope revealed an extremely porous nature which goes part way to explaining the heat dissapation.

the main reason this stuff is not marketable yet is that to get a patent, you must know why and how it works. and so far no one has been able to tell Troy exactly that.

more later have to go to work.
Posted by Jeff  on  Wed Feb 09, 2005  at  11:45 PM
Cosmic contact said:

"I suggest that this whole matter is a specimen of an ALIEN TECHNOLOGY, which we just cannot comprehend. "

geebs said:

perhaps the interplanetary force of pyramid power and mysterious niceness has given troy this dream-gift as a weapon to save earth from the imminent evil space bear invasion mentioned in an earlier post.

"gee, pa, what are we gonna do? them evil space bears has killed the sherrif and stampeded all the cattle!!!"

"don't fret son, Troy's comin', and he's bringin' his new gun!"

Now, see, THAT'S the kind of hard-hitting logical thought I've been looking for! If the rest of you would just make sense like that, I'd have nothing to argue with.
Posted by crankymediaguy  on  Thu Feb 10, 2005  at  02:55 AM
Now that is the kind of logical,linear thinking that we need around here. Bravo!LOL

Ok back to my explanation for Intjudo.

As I mentioned the spectrograph did not identify about 20 % of the substance involved.

I do not mean that Troy has come up with some miracle unknown element... The Spectrometer was just not configured to detect whatever elements make up that 20 %. More testing was required to complete the investigation, but not in Troy's budget.

The Fire-paste is a mixture of many common compounds and solutions mostly readily available fire retardants and of course the secret ingredient Diet Coke.

Troy's claim is that he did over 3000 trial mixtures and pours before finally resolving the recipe for his mixture. That is a lot of trial and error.

As for his LIMBC cushions, They are multiple layers of among other things, Kevlar, plate steel fire-paste and Troy's own 1313 solution (the substance that when applied to two make-up remover pads lifted the BMW on Ripley's )

(Troy claims that 1313 is 105 times as strong as steel and a fraction of the weight. I have only seen the Ripley's demonstration, and only know that Troy claims this one as another trial and error experiment.)

I don't think that fire-paste is a good replacement for the tiles on the shuttle, because the substance appears to be quite brittle. I doubt that alone it would hold up to re-entry. The demonstration he did of the fire-paste combined with 1313 and kevlar was intriguing. (perhaps as a stop gap measure should a shuttle again lose a tile on a future mission?)

And that Bear-suit? That thing is just awesome! combine that with MIT's power assisted harness and what do you think? (or was that Berkeley? I believe it was a DARPA project anyway) That thing stops bullets, crossbow bolts, cars, logs, front-end loaders. I even believe that his newest version (mk VII) would stand up to, yes, a bear.

The question now is this Angel-Light.

I don't know... I really want to find out... and I would just about $#!+ my pants if it really worked. I will be dissappointed if it doesn't, not in the failure of the technology, but because I have admired Troy's work and this would leave a bit of a black mark don't you think.

As I posted before he is planning on demonstrating the device on Feb. 17. I thought it was implied but I meant with the media present. I don't know which media he means but I would hope that the Discovery Channel is invited.

It has been rumored though that at the request of the French Government, this demonstration, will not include looking through walls. But will instead demonstrate the E.M.P. effect. He is also trying to determine if he can remove the effect harmful to living organisms. As he stated that he will sell it to no one if he cannot do so.(a bit of a cop out I know, you don't have to point that out.)

That is just about everything I know about the situation, feel free to pick it apart now.
Posted by Jeff  on  Thu Feb 10, 2005  at  09:12 AM
"Motorola Inc. for example, has set its sights on emerging technology that could allow first responders and Special Forces to see through building walls, the Washington Technology Web site reports."

"Camero Inc. an Israeli firm founded by technology and intelligence veterans, received $5 million from Motorola and other investors to develop portable imaging radar that uses ultra-wideband technology to create a 3-D picture of objects that are concealed by walls or other barriers."
Posted by skeptical... but  in  Indy  on  Thu Feb 10, 2005  at  01:23 PM
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