Joseph said:

Joseph said:

"Interesting reply to my email.

"I cannot speak physics with you as i am a business major, but i will say this, personal testimonials sell a product better than any other marketing i have seen. now, before you jump to your cranky conclusion, let me elaborate with this: i mean word of mouth testimonials. when people start talking about a product or service they believe in, its easy to sell a product. my reference to phone calls from clients was not a "selling point", but rather a "maybe the technology really does work and people are actually feeling a difference point." see the difference?"

I have no doubt that testimonials help sell product, but what does that have to do with whether or not the product WORKS? The way to determine that--the only accurate way--is by proper scientific testing. Either it works or it doesn't.

"i ran across this forum and i thought id drop a line based on my experience of the products, not argue who is right or the physics of technology that i doubt you could actually keep up with. (sorry for the assumption, no foul intended)."

Yes, that's right, I'm SO STUPID that I couldn't POSSIBLY understand your bogus "scientific" mumbo-jumbo. Duh. Hey, wait! I thought you were a business major and not capable of speaking physics. Are you a sales-weasel or a genius in undiscovered-by-the-scientific-mainstream physics?

"when i muscle test people for other products that claim they do the same ours does, there is absolutly no difference in their strength. however, with our products, people feel how it works through kinesiology."

Are you referring to that bullshit where the thing being "tested" is placed in the person's hand and if they don't resist your pushing on their arm to your satisfaction, that somehow "proves" something or other? THAT'S the "science" that Stupid Ol' Me couldn't possibly understand? Um, I know enough to know that that is discredited horseshit.

"check out clarus.com for info and research on the Qlink, and yes, we do sell the Qlink."

And as I tried to get you to explain before, how does the QLink relate to the BIOPRO Chips? They're two different products, right, so how does talking about one of them tell me anything about the other?

"i never said tiger endorsed out product, however i think its interesting that he has asked for two of them."

I hear he asked for two shoes in a department store, too. I guess that proves that shoes "harmonize EMF." What ELSE could it possibly mean?

continued...

...continued

"You make a good arguement as to tiger wearing the product for the look, but have you seen our products? they dont look that appealing!"

I'll take your word about the unattractiveness of your products. As for Tiger Woods liking the way they look, I was merely proposing that as one possible reason why he might have wanted to own them, assuming that he actually does, that is. Not that a SALESPERSON would EVER lie about something that might help sell his product.

"nevertheless, loosen up a little bit and if you want to become a distibutor let me know. I am confident i have sold you on the products and the business, i look forward to hearing from you!"

You can look forward to it all you want, but it ain't gonna happen, Bub! Life's too short to waste any of it on selling crap to the gullible.

As for your confidence that you have sold me on the products, I only wish I could attach a sound file to this message--although Dumb Ol' Me would have to bring in a technician to handle a technical job like that--so you could hear me laughing at that ridiculous notion. I trust I have made my position on this clear.

your inability to leave your own insecurities out of a discussion and stay on point has become more frustrating than i can take.

i never referred to you as stupid. i even put a disclaimer in my post incase my asssumption was wrong. why would you write..."
Yes, that's right, I'm SO STUPID that I couldn't POSSIBLY understand your bogus "scientific" mumbo-jumbo. Duh."?

is your reading comprehension really that bad, or are you so insecure in regards to your own
knowledge and education that you really did think i meant you were stupid?

"I have no doubt that testimonials help sell product, but what does that have to do with whether or not the product WORKS? The way to determine that--the only accurate way--is by proper scientific testing. Either it works or it doesn't." through kinesiology people can feel a difference immediatley, over time they feel a difference in their body, thus the product sells. more research should become available in coming weeks, i will link that onto here.

for now, relazx and study the website so when i sign you up to distribute the product you know what to say....thanks....joseph

Qlink and biopro use the same technology, that is why i refernce to Qlink. point taken on tiger woods, i guess golfdigest.com is inaccurate when they talk about golfers and products they use. please forgive my ignorance.

You really do make me laugh, Joseph. The bottom line here is that you peddle crap by spewing pseudo-scientific nonsense. You can indulge in all the personal attacks you want but nothing will change those basic facts. Y

I notice that you don't even attempt to respond to the questions I asked you. Why, it's almost as if you KNOW that the crap you sell doesn't work (other than the placebo effect of course) and you CAN'T give reasonable answers.

Tell you what. If you sincerely believe in those stupid "resins" or whatever they are, why don't you show the world how scientifically effective they are by applying for the James Randi Educational Foundation's prize? Go to randi.org for the details. There's a million dollars waiting for you if you can prove they work under controlled conditions. You wouldn't even have to explain HOW they work; you'd just have to PROVE THAT THEY DO. Since you're so sure they work, this should be easy money for you.

Why do you keep making yourself look foolish by insisting that I'm going to become a distributor for your crap? Hell will get a hockey franchise before that happens. I don't even want to sell legitimate products, let along phony nonsense marketed to the gullible.

The QLinks and the Harmonization Chips are bogus. On any http://www.mybiopro.com/dealerhere website you will see a research section. . . Now if any of you have taken calculous (I took Calc I & II in college) you will see probability derivatives in this research. Well to make a long story short these products do not care about actual EMF. These products only care about radiating heat.

These people believe that since we are made up of water than the overheating will have negative effects on us.

Another thing that just makes me laugh is the attack on computers. I am a computer technician and I can tell you that if your CPU Box is not shielding EMF, then I want to know how your computer is even working. Computers have to be shielded in order for them to work properly.

I think this companies hoax is to do a network marketing scheme to gather people up so they can make "the long dollar" on this product. Look into their "Business Opportunity" on those websites.

I have no remorse for the stupid people of this planet. If they honestly believe a little chip or a copper/gold pendant is really going to protect them from EMF, let them. These things use a SRT (Sound Resonating Tunnel) to harmonize EMF. Well guess what I did take a lot of physics throughout highschool and college and can tell you that if you can make a sound wave harmonize an EMF wave, you better go and talk to NASA because they are sure going to be needing your input for a thing called a sub-light engine.

I am not totally against looking into things, but when offered the research and this is what I find, well then I can say "NO". The research is non-conclusive as to the adverse effects of EMF on people. The Swedes are conducting a 10 year test of cell phones and cancer. Midway report says. . . oh oh oh. . . Non-conclusive as thus far. Science did not say that they don't just said halfway through they are not sure yet. I like that people who are guessing and testing rather than just throwing out a bunch of radical technical terms that could not even possibly exists at this point in human technology.

I just must say they are doing a good job, because of I have been approached by some of their lackies in my area to buy this. I said well let me look into and then I will get back to you. I looked into it, called the individual back and said nice try.

Oh and another thing:

I don't want to hear about testimonials used to sell the product or other media babble. What does "Golf Digest" know about physics. . . Hmmmm not a thing! Tiger Woods is an athlete, well come on let's let club-swinging Stephen Hawking speak on this product. Tiger Woods bought 2? Well I am sure he could afford it (no offense Tiger).

Don't get me wrong, Tiger Woods = excellent athlete, superb golfer in all respects, Tiger Woods != Astrophysicist. Using stars to promote products is just a an ol bandwagon technique. If the QLink could make me play golf like Tiger, I would be all over that monkey.

Now if the thing was in "Popular Science" or some creditable science magazine of the sort, I might look into this more.

Let’s start off with the significance of the problem. If you smoke, stop reading, it is not worth your time. If you generally take care of your body for the long term, it is worth taking at least the easy and free steps to reduce your possible risk (see below)

RE the person above that said "I am a computer technician and I can tell you that if your CPU Box is not shielding EMF, then I want to know how your computer is even working."

From what I understand, this is correct for very high levels of EMF, but not the levels that the biopro and other products are trying to address (good or bad I can not tell you).

I have a Dell that is 2 years or so old. It emits ELF at about 40mG out the back and about 15mG out the sides. The world health organization suggests limiting continuous exposure to less than 2.5gauss.

My Volvo in the driver’s area rings up about 30mG. I spend a lot of time driving.

My cell phone is more intermittent and only spikes to 15mG or so but most of the time is below 5mG.

But for the most part (other than the car), it is very easy to avoid most of these problems, once you know where they are. The hotspots can easily be measured. If you do not have a measurement device, then simply stay about 2' away from running appliances (use reason, off course you have to turn the dryer on, but you do not have to sit on it while it is running...), and 8" or so from smaller electronics. These fields drop off very fast. Set your computer up so the back and sides are two feet from you. Make sure your bed is not against a wall where the electrical box is on the other side. Use the wire corded land line when you can vs. long telephone calls on a cell phone. If you have one, use the speaker feature vs. having it up to your head. Common sense stuff. Easy to protect yourself just in case there is a real threat.

Since 2004, there is significant research showing that there is a problem, smoke. More research is in progress that will give us a better understanding of what the problem is, and whether there is fire.

Enjoy,

Steve

I was brought aware of this product today from someone trying to get me involved in a pyramid business. I have to admit that the fact of radiation from electronics is a very real issue, but I do not believe that this product has a real benefit. Not to mention the fact that at the end of the information video it states(but only for a brief second) "This product is not intended to cure, or prevent any diseases". After they spend ten minutes saying that it will help stop cancers and feelings of pain and fatigue caused by EMF radiation. BUt of course they have many people claiming they feel much better after using the product. The way I see it placebo's have been known to cure diseases and shows signs of improvement from people suffering from ADD. It all just shows that the biggest disease in the modern world is FEAR!

Joseph said:

"...I do not believe that this product has a real benefit. Not to mention the fact that at the end of the information video it states(but only for a brief second) "This product is not intended to cure, or prevent any diseases"."

Joseph, if you watch TV, you'll see that all the quack crap sold on it has a disclaimer that says "This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease." I assume this is a standardized phrase, possibly mandated by the FDA since it's always worded the same way. Everytime I see it, I think, "Uh, if it doesn't do at least one of those four things, what the hell would I want it for?" After all, "treat" is pretty vague. If a product can't even "treat" whatever my ailment is, isn't it worthless?

"The BIOPRO Econo Fuel Chips are charged with a proprietary blend of resonant frequencies."

To me this says they are charging this chip with resonant frequencies, would this not make this so called chip an AC battery? If so why are the electric co. not using this technology for storing AC electricity that they generate?

Alfie said:

"To me this says they are charging this chip with resonant frequencies, would this not make this so called chip an AC battery?"

Although I went to electronics school for six months after I graduated from high school way back when, I wasn't a very good student, so I might be wrong here. Feel free to correct me if I AM wrong, but wouldn't an "AC battery" be a breakthrough in electronics? Aren't batteries DC by nature?

This, of course, is just another reason to doubt the claims for these chips.

You are right it would be a breaktrough.

To get an idea of the mind set of the makers of these bogus devices. Look at the ads on this page, who in there right mind would advertize their product on a fourm that is proving them to be a rip off!

This is taken from:
U.S. Food and Drug Administration
FDA Consumer magazine
November-December 2000
Table of Contents




"With the recent media spotlight on cell phones, cancer researcher John Moulder, Ph.D., warns that some marketers are preying on people's fear of radiation, selling fraudulent devices with claims that they are protective. Moulder has seen a variety of creative but useless items, mostly on the Internet, from pendants worn around the neck to so-called RF-proof lingerie. As to products sold as shields for the phone to cut your RF exposure while not interfering with the communication signal, Moulder says, "I have yet to see one that can do both of those things.""


Read the rest for your self at:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/600_phone.html

I found these comments very interesting, though I feel the discussion got a bit sidetracked by the gun thing. In any case I have included a couple of exerpts that I found on various websites (see end, hoping to refer back to your April 26, 2005 response to Joseph). I am not a salesperson, just curious about these sort of claims. In regards to "infusing resonant frequencies", all objects in nature have this. It's call vibration. The human body is naturally made up of vibrations, energy fields, frequencies, etc. Our bodies are natural conductors of different energies. But, all things in life and nature require balance. For instance: yes, the sun is, in several ways, bad for us, but that is what the ozone layer is for...to protect us (until we screwed it up). Our bodies were not made to "deal" with all of the technology that has popped up in the past century, we need some extra help sometimes.
I don't know about BioPro or Clarus' claims, but I think it is extremely closed-minded to think that something like this (which is more natural than you probably know)is a "bunch of crap". Also, in regards to the US Food and Drug Administraion report: who in their right mind believes all the crap that government agencies feed us?
Exerpts:
It is well known that the human body responds to and is capable of generating various frequencies of activity. Witness the use of MRI and NMR techniques in conventional medical diagnostic procedures. Similarly,cellular DNA has been determined by Lorenzen and others to have a resonant frequency 42 octaves above "middle C" on our musical scale. This has major implications in the fields of neurobiology and biochemistry. These examples utilize known and measurable resonant frequencies for various organs, tissues, liquids, celular constructs and bones and represent science which is routinely used in medical diagnostic procedures worldwide.
Today, sophisticated devices have proven that the human body has a constant flux or flow of electricity through it, so in a sense the human body is an electromagnetic coil or antenna. Human DNA, which is a super coiled double strand molecule, acts as an antenna and is known to emit electromagnetic radiation. Therefore it is fairly easy to understand, how we can be positively influenced by all these natural forms of electromagnetic frequencies. All things in nature seek harmonic balance.

I bought one for my teenage daughter who is a sensitive enough human to feel differences in her performance to try it out and give me feedback on how she feels each day. I also read up on the experiments and scientific scrutiny that have been legitimately conducted.

The last people I would ever trust with information regarding
products that increase vitality and promote good health in an increasingly health risked world is the U.S. govt, period.

If you want good info you have to search. This is technology that has been researched for 25 years at universities around the world. It's mentioned in their promotional material which places
have conducted studies. If you search for those studies you can see for yourselves what happens to blood, skin and other parts of your whole self when these painstakenly designed inventions
do what they were designed to do.

Ask the cynics to take the time to read everything they can find and then make a statement based on what they observed. If they want to talk before that then it will all be blather. Time to change the channel For a good place to start, type the folllowing into your search engine. The pdf attachment will give you background enough on all the science that has supported the purpoted benefits from using this product.

What's my interest in joining this discussion? Whenever I look up something that I'm intensely interested in, I try to find any information that legitimately refutes what the prospects are of my item in focus. I haven't found it here, so Ill look in a couple more or so places then I'll call it a day, kiss my daughter goodnight, ask her how she felt today, and send for a few more of these things because I'd like my whole family to be protected as well as we're able against the constant onslaught of a world filled with electronic gadgets. I do love them all, but the dangers are unmistakable, and our health and peak performance are worth more than a few measle hundred dollars.

My two cents worth,
Roger

This initial discussion came about from talking about the cell phone chips, and one counter argument was referenced of the pendant. Actually the materials from which the chips are made are different (resin) than the pendant (some type of metal). I don't remember hearing that Tiger ordered any of the chips for his use though.

The seller specifies in an FAQ somewhere the reason why it is good to use both the pendant and the chips. The pendant is good for EMF from all types of items in the environment, where the chips are to be placed specifically on those areas where EMF and/or heating exists.



They also have a device which can be used for the home - plug it in to an outlet and it will protect your home up to 60' radius. And the amazing thing is that it uses no electricity...so why do I have to plug it in then?

Regarding the chips, the seller also states that you can put these chips on your car to enhance gas mileage - surely this is a very simple scientific test that could be done to prove the increase, so why can't I find the test results published somewhere?

Finally, the seller states that one pendant can't be shared by 2 people because the pendant tunes itself to an individual person's biofield. Wow - pretty amazing. Sounds like the seller would rather fine tune their wallet through sales of multiple pendants.

Joseph is full of fallacies. He sells a product that claims physical properties, but can't put physics behind it. Being a business major does not preclude common sense or an understanding of science, although many people who are business majors tend to fall into pyramid schemes faster than a scientist will. I have looked at the science on the website; it is done by cooky non peer reviewed people in Germany. Listen, my dad fell for this crock and bought a bunch of these little dimes and there is a sticker on my phone now, but I do not think it does a damn thing; biofields are not even proven. Just becuase people endorse something does not mean a damn thing; this is the fallacy of the majority. At one point, people endorsed slavery. At another, people crushed other people under tons of stones calling them witches. Another time, people endorsed monarchy. Endorsement might sell products, but it is out of trust, not out of knowledge. This is worse because it has been shown, scientifically, and with enough data to now support lawsuits, that cell phones might cauase cancerous tumors. Putting this sticker on might help people feel better, without actually doing anything. Allllll of the 'good reviews' Joseph brags about could be placebo effect. People think the sticker will do something, and it actually doesn't, when they need to find something that will be effective.

Look, I am a technician with over 10 years experience mantaining/troubleshooting/teaching and studying electronics theory and technologies. And there are some impressive things out there I cant lie, but this isnt one. What can you trust?
I found very little to refute the claims of biopro's technology, but I found not a single one to support it (I looked for over an hour).
A couple of my family members bought this product for the rediculous price of $140 and when I learned this I immediately got mad.
I read their sight... it was silly. They do not know anything about electronics or radiation. Nice rubber sticker, though.
One last thing, it claims not to effect the phones transmit/receive properties in any way... hahaha! They don't seem to know what radiation is or what they are claiming.
Don't waste your money on a sticker that just lets everyone know you are gullible.
Thanks BIOPRO for making my loved ones waste their money to look stupid!

Hi Geroges Lakhovsky found much better uses for natural local and solar and manmade emfs, In 1924 He used a length of copper wire to encircle a geranium plant he had inoculated with a chemical to cause cancer, he did this with fifteen other geranium plants, the coppe circle had a diametre of 30 cms it was enamelled with both ends prevented from touching and the wire attcahed to an ebonite stake pushed into the soil of the plant pot, the other fifteen plants died quickly of cancer while this plant fully recovered and lived a life span beyond its species usual span. This is documented with pictures online or can be read wih many other ways to help yourselves in his book "The Secret Of Iife" great read, hope this helps :O)