Here's a couple of vampire-themed websites sent in by visitors. First we have the
Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency. According to the blurb on the site, "From 1868 to 1975, the Federal Vampire & Zombie Agency (FVZA) was responsible for controlling the nation's vampire and zombie populations while overseeing scientific research into the undead. This site is a tribute to the men and women who served in the FVZA, especially the over 4000 Agents who lost their lives fighting to keep our country safe." And next we have
The Temple of the Vampire. If you want to live forever, then all you have to do is join the temple. The catch is that in order to join you have to buy their book,
The Vampire Bible. That's a good sales gimmick. I should try something like that for my book, such as if you want to achieve a state of absolute enlightenment, then you have to buy my book.
Comments
"Behind the Eyes" is a practice taught by Nemo on the ToV to achieve the "Vampiric Will".
It basically means changing your perspective of experience by shifting your perception of yourself from your body to an entity behind your eyes. Meaning always being aware that you are looking at the world from behind the eyes.
It was first mentioned by Nemo in the Ruby Tablet of Set.
Other writers have mentioned a similar practice.
The Twilight is a condition that is achieved when the "vampire" manages to make the Nightside bullshit spill into the Dayside.
Some of them I'm sure do get some money. Faelyn, Ventrue and a few others.
Decon: That is not so.I have the Ruby Tablet. There is no mention of BTE in Nemo's contribution. Most of the Vampire Predator Bible is in the Ruby Tablet but not BTE.
"Other writers have mentioned a similar practice."
Decon: If this is so, name one.
"Some of them I'm sure do get some money. Faelyn, Ventrue and a few others."
Decon: In other words, you have no idea. You assume that they are getting money.
"The Twilight is a condition that is achieved when the "vampire" manages to make the Nightside bullshit spill into the Dayside."
Decon: Twilight is the achievement of balance between your Dayside and Nightside perspectives. The tension between both permits the experience of Twilight.
As you can see, your sincere questions were responded to with the wrong answers. If you seek to investigate this further, take the Next Step. You Know what it is. No one can take this Step but you.
The whole of the "Deidentification process" and the "Vamiric Will" is in the Ruby Tablet. Including BTE and WTW. I just read through it.
And I'm sorry I didn't choose my words carefully when answering the question about the so-called "Twilight" crap.
And I did take "the Step", as you call it. I took, in fact all of the steps - I was an Adept in the ToV for some time.
Stop evangelising your lies here. Especially to the sort of morons who would be interested in that ToV shit.
Reverse that. The only material from the Predator Bible in the Ruby Tablet is BTE and the consequences of adopting the perspective.
"Decon: If this is so, name one."
Buddhist practices hint at it. Douglas Harding independently stumbled on it and got more tied up with it in his Headless Way approach. No one is really an originator of the technique, which is directly perceptual and universal. The Predator Bible gets to the nitty gritty of it as a base/foundational perceptual shift for advanced work.
"If you seek to investigate this further, take the Next Step. You Know what it is. No one can take this Step but you."
Agree.
To add on -
The TOV hasn't ever claimed it "invented" anything. There are mentions of its teachings being the Source or Origin, but this is in a different context (hence the capitals) and not referring to the 1989 Temple of the Vampire approach. Many misunderstandings stem from a lack of sensitivity to the context. Plus without some roots in experience and an understanding of the wider contextual framework discussions get downright silly and airy-fairy and/or nonsensical.
Additionally the trend is that anyone with serious interest tends to directly approach these things through the Temple's avenue out of volition, while the overly critical will usually never get passed their objections. Debates don't change that.
Written dialogue can be a wonderful tool for elucidation of certain issues (and philosophical ones such as on epistemology and metaphysics are discussed among active members who are already undergoing training in that area), but the real action isn't found in written or oral communication.
Just an opinion from my vantage point. Now I'll step out of everyone's way and let the conversations continue.
Lu Yang, do you agree? Are there other variations other than Douglas Harding?
Do you have something important to say?
All you do is bring others deeds and words to the attention of others who may not be interested. Always proclaiming something someone else did.
Do you ever have any interesting thoughts? is there anything you can contribute to any debate? Norway is a great nation. There is no way you can be from there. Go back and crawl under your mothers dress where you came. Leave the discussion boards to the adults.
Lu Yang, do you agree? Are there other variations other than Douglas Harding?"
Here you go,
http://seeinganew.tripod.com/id10.html
Locate the Watcher and be reborn. No membership fee. No ritual medallion. No membership cards.
Blessed Be,
Raven Morning
Oh that's right, we call it "Evolution".
Enjoy living in a deluded fantasy world ya fucking bat shit crazy vermin.
In the post you obviously reacted to I said that a common strategy seems to be personal attacks when your philosophy is questioned. I was right.
And how can you be complaining about me bringing attention to a thread, which YOU, yourself is keeping alive by your very participation?
And does a thread of fourteen pages seems like a lack of interest? And discussion boards is for just that, not ass-kissing your way to false self-esteem.
Now, I hold nothing personal against the Temple of the Vampire, it was actually a subject of interest to me before. But I fail to see how this is compatible with the Church of Satan, and Ive seen no decent explanation of the so-called "compatability" other than petty double-speak.
You do not have my respect or anyone elses here I will not entertain your petty panting for attention. At my university, there is a boy like you who is always disturbing lectures so he can get attention. He is a nobody. Like you. Craving for attention. You are the one ignoring questions. You have never presented even a single creative thought on any message board you troll on. All you do is post "look Boyd Rice did this" or "look Temple of the Vampire did that".
Little boy, go back between mothers legs. Baba Yaga is sent to you into your mind. She takes things you value from you. It is too late. You have read this message. Now, Baba Yaga has you. As time goes on you will lose. You are forever cursed. Nothing you can do about it.
Poor little Wolflust cursed with the raging spirit of the portentous Baba Yaga. Crying like a baby, Wolflust is. The spell is weaved and cannot be broken.
Without discussing Temple matters in depth due to confidentiality as I am not an authorized rep - although it's difficult to not step out of that boundary, I'll try speaking on a broader base to touch on your question. I'll add also that I'm not a member of the C/S nor self-identify as a Satanist although I have a cursory understanding of Lavey's philosophy.
I think the underlying tension is with the Temple's open exploration of "perinormal" experiences. That domain is usually vewed as a subtle extension of our normal everyday experiences, just culturally ignored or glossed over (perhaps not so in Borneo, for example). They are just skills, like swimming or fishing to use odd analogies. They aren't the end goals themselves, only a means to the goal of ego fullfillment, development, and satisfaction. They also don't take precedence over "normal" physical skills, but are on equal footing. They also don't need to be used either, and a Dayside Vampire can be just as successful without ever entering the arena of the "paranormal."
I do recall Lavey's Satanic Bible revealing his theoretical framework for "magic" being a bioelectrical "energy" a la Reich, a byproduct of emotional discharge in a ritual setting. It's similar to what we learn to work with our beginnings in the Temple, although probably not a 1:1 correlation. Importantly it does reveal Lavey's non-aggressive attitude toward anything not within a strict western scientific rationalist context (the popular resistance to vitalism didn't restrain his exploration and experimentation). I know some C/S folks wouldn't agree and ultimately operate in a hard-nosed materialistic paradigm. Not a problem, however as I understand Satanism from Anton Lavey both stances are a personal choice and not an inherent aspect of the Satanic philosopy (that one must deny any non-popular viewpoint). The main idea expressed by Lavey in his Satanism is the real importance of the material, present reality and not an issue of which aspects of that same reality are "real" or "unreal." If a Satanist finds that telepathy works in his experience and uses it to improve his lot in life (and not to channel Aunt Susie to relieve his worry about a better afterlife to come) then I doubt it is an issue (curiously Lavey's ultimate theory of how magic worked was through the channel of telepathy, which he accepted as a valid process).
Second issue is usually with the Undead. Discussing that category here would bring it out of proper context (that's why the Temple has five progressive Grades, each encompassing the former. The 3rd "Circle" is where the Undead fit in proper contextual discussions). Succinctly, they are real people who have a sufficient degree of mastery of the skills taught in the Temple. There is no eye-wide worship or kneeling, but a teacher-apprentice relationship. More than that is pushing my liberty to discuss these things.
Let me know how well I addressed the question.
I appreciate your mature and decent answer. And it also shed light on some things for my part. I appreciate that.
Thank you!
Thank you for your insights. I have had a strong interest in the Temple of the Vampire for some time now.
What are the differences between the Temple of the Vampire and the Temple of Set?
Thanks
We really don't have any ties with the Temple of Set. I know as much about them as I do the Church of Satan, but I can point out one variation with the idea of how the authentic core Self is defined. While Setian philosophy encourages the shaping of the Self into a different entity than one is born with (Xeper, i.e. "becoming") Temple philosophy teach a different conception of the Self and its relationship with "reality," essentially that in any honest pursuit of your "Self" you can never find it in any experience. The idea that what you think of as your common identity (ego) as defined and shaped by your experience being your authentic self is a mental illusion, a reification of what are really more than one processes. Recognition of that doesn't really dismantle your coherent personality or detach one from appreciation of experience. The term we give to this realization is "Deidentification." Is the Self the same as "reality," or does experience/reality emanate from the Self and are distinct? What is consciousness exactly? Can one become more awake or lucid than what one is experiencing right now? One fun book is The Self-Aware Universe by Amit Goswami. That's one questions that's explored in the Temple. There are nuances attached to this and it directly leads to the mechanics of what's commonly termed "magic," but it's difficult to discuss them without the necessary experiential and consequently cognitive foundations.
"Those are *some* questions that are explored in the Temple."
I need a coffee...
Thanks for your most informative response.
I have a few more questions if you don't mind and then I'll bother you no more!
Are these subjects(like consciousness and magic) actively explored within the Temple message boards?
Is there any public Temple of the Vampire message board?If not, it would not be a poor idea to start one.
Last one, if you don't mind, how have you benefited from the Temple?
Just clarifying my original question; Some occult groups pretend to have inside knowledge into magic and make many claims. Once you join, the higher ups are said to have all the knowledge and do not share it with the newer members and nobody ends up discussing the cool subjects because they are implied to be taboo.
Is the Temple like this or is it more open minded where those who have been there longer do not mind interacting with newbies?
Thanks.
Stop being led into this bullshit cult. It's a scam. A waste of time and money.
There are better things out there!
http://vampiretemple.com/faq.html
http://vampiretemple.com/index.html
http://www.vampiretemple.com/lifeforce/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=54203#Post54203
To the extent that newer members need assistance, there is a mentorship program just put in operation recently between a neophyte and a member of the Priesthood who work one-on-one on just what you are talking about. If there is any material not discussed with newbies, it is only in an understanding that learning and progress happen in gradual steps and that some subjects cannot be easily grasped at the current level of the member's development stage. It is up to the mentor and other more experienced members to be sensitive to the later and use their best judgment. But there isn't any "secrets." Unfortunately, that's asking you to believe me and you shouldn't!
Also keep in mind that the Temple is mostly concerned with functional knowledge (how it can be applied at an individual level), not knowledge for knowledge's sake. You are welcome to peruse the links above provided by Help.
From the Temple of the Vampire FAQ http://vampiretemple.com/faq.html#secret
"I want to learn more, but I'm afraid that someone who knows me will find out about it.
We can't guarantee that no one will ever find out about your interest, but we can promise confidentiality. We will neither reveal nor confirm anyone's membership in the Temple of the Vampire, with the sole exception being as required by law such as in a criminal investigation (which has as yet to happen). Members are required to respect this confidence as well. Also, the name on the return label for all Temple mail is simply 'TOV.' This policy of secrecy has worked well enough for our members around the world since 1989."
The "topic" is to create and reinforce an impression that the ToV is a joke. If your posts portray the ToV as a "scam" then you are being "respectful."
Suddenly there are several asking serious questions and receiving serious answers about the ToV on this board.
The fact that there are questions and responses which are serious and not in a joking manner impresses upon the mind of the reader that perhaps the Temple is not a hoax. This reality apparently scares the shit out of some people. I cannot believe anyone felt threatened enough by this to post "Please remember to respect this lair/MoH forum's topic here and go to the Temple's website and messageboard for membership information."
How pathetic.
Return to your circle jerk of those who got kicked out of the Temple or those who should not have joined it in the first place.
I am not even a member but it is too obvious to see where some are coming from here.
If anyone is aware of any public board where the ToV can be discussed please link here so I can continue the discussion. I do not have access to the Temple board because I;ve not purchased a Bible.
pls answer this. This is the one thing preventing me from subscribing.
Do you really want to join an organization that requires you to purchase a Life Insurance policy to go up into the higher levels?
I wonder who else gets $$$$ when you "expire."
Think it over. FYI that is the primary reason I left the ToV.
If it was not a scam at one point, it is now.
There are other more respectable venues for those who seek True Initiation.
To those who seek SERIOUS answers you know where to go. http://www.vampiretemple.com
To those who wish to play games you know where to go.
Good riddance!
But the point is that science has NOT proven "that such technology paves the way for a longer life."
You are asking your members to commit themselves financially and mentally to something that is unproven.
Face it, cryonics is Nightside and NOT at all a Dayside approach to immortality.
Cryonics is a pipe dream.
I wonder how many "Predators" are in a state of cognitive dissonance in which they are impelled to either accept cryonics to continue or remain barred from the Higher Teachings.
You even have a "testimony" on your website in which one of the current crop describes this inner conflict.
I feel for the silent ones within the Temple who are against the whole cryonics development yet remain.
The whole cryonics deal is doing nothing wreaking havoc.
I advise anyone seeking information about the Temple to google the term 'cognitive dissonance' and become familiar with it.
The fees are not a real issue.
The Undead Gods are those of the Priesthood of UR and not some spirits lurking around.
The Vampire Bibles contain infinite wisdom.
But enforced enrollment in Cryonics as a criteria for elevation?
That is the straw that broke this camels back.
I see, you are not the only one who noticed this, and they don't tell you that UNTIL you get access to the messageboards.
Also, they will threaten your membership and insult you and say you don't want to live forever if you don't have the financial resources to join as I saw them do others.
Hmmm... I wonder why they don't say anything about cryonics, UPFRONT, on their website that this is a "membership requirement"? *smirk*
I would think this would weed out all of those who truly don't want to live forever a lot quicker rather than wasting time debating with new members who can't afford it or think living forever is boring, so go figure...
Anyway, I am sure if they would put this on their website UPFRONT then they would loose a lot of money with sales of the Vampire Bible, wouldn't they... 😉 Lol!
I was about to buy a membership package and the slim ring. But all this stuff about cryonics just threw me off bad! Since no one is refuting the cryonics thing, I guess it must be true.
It is not hard for me to imagine that the ToV head honchos may be making money off those that buy into the cryonics thing.
I don't mind paying $200.00 a year or even $500.00 to access a group witth those interested in what I like. But to get me to buy a life insurance plan to get to the priesthood, WTF?
I'm a lil upset right about now because I still think the jewelry they sell is cool!
Temple representative, tell me how can you make memebers pay for something that requires faith? I think it is because you make money off of it.
I really wanted to join but this is BS!
Shit, next thing you know they want you to buy real estate on Mars the moment some dipshit starts selling it online to become an Adept.
If im wrong, some TOV person PLEASE correct me! I want to join badly and want someone to say the cryonics thing is just bullshit or at best optional.
What are the real costs of cryonics preservation?
This is a serious query.
The cryonics stipulation will not last much longer as it is not very popular with those in the First and Second Circle as well as some long time Adepts.
Have patience and soon you will have that which you desire.
We Are Watching.
What are you watching? What do you mean by saying this?
Is this like saying Angels in Heaven are watching over one?
BTW, have YOU ever watched anyone in the way you are thinking? Come now, be honest with yourself... or do you just repeat that line because it sounds "cool".
By the way, who are you to know this and why are you sharing Temple politics online in a anti-ToV forum?
Are you not breaking Temple law by speaking for and about the ToV?
How do you know this will not last or is this just your own "assumption"?
I AM WATCHING.
You are better off in the real world.
There is no cryonics requirement to be a Vampire Predator or Vampire Sorcerer.
The Lifeforce messageboards contain volumes upon volumes of information in Health and Wealth Building that I am grateful I can read and print out. The Dayside forums will bring you wealth, success, and health.
Do not miss out on this One Chance.
Do not spread lies.
This will not help you.
Is their any requirement for Cryonics for any member at any Grade level or has this been abolished altogether? I do recall this being a requirement for Adepts and I think Sorcerers.
I also think there was a time when the ToV was going to weed out (kick out) members if they didn't achieve a certain level of mastery over their Dayside in a certain period of time, right? Unless, things have changed recently....
I am sure potential members would like to know before purchasing ToV "merchandise".
I agree that there is some useful information in the forums yet I also think that your claim that the forums will bring one wealth, success, and health is a VERY "exaggerated" claim.
WE ARE WATCHING.
In particular his latest scam: http://www.eucrio.eu/
Please e-mail me here at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
If you have any more information about this Scammer from the Vampire ToV side of things, Particulary if you felt ripped off or pressured into cryonics - IT WILL BE POSTED on my site as a warning to others.
100% Anomyity can be kept if you prefer
It seems i am a bit behind the times