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Disprove god to me
Posted: 17 June 2009 11:52 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I am the youth leader at a church and I have been looking for someone to challenge my faith respectfully, as in, i respect your views and you respect mine. I am looking for an intellectual argument, not a little kid one, so lay it on me.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 12:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I am willing to bet there is no one who can sway me.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 12:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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With that attitude, I am sure you are right. hmmm

Basically what you seem to be asking for is a discussion of religion with no point in mind. Do you really think that you are actually going to change another’s viewpoint by arguing it over an anonymous web forum?  Doubtful.

I personally liked the Apostle Paul’s take on it: “Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God.” - Rom. 14:22  hmmm

Just a small thought to chew on…......

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Posted: 18 June 2009 12:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Being an agnostic (or, at least, that’s the closest word I’ve come across to describe my belief system), I believe there is the possibility that God exists (I like how you have “god” in lowercase letters in the title of this thread - that says a lot about your faith right there), though I won’t believe it until/unless it’s proven to me.  So I would be unable to “prove” to you that God doesn’t exist since the only proof I have is the lack of proof that He does.

So I would rather have you offer proof to me that God does exist - since I have a strong lack of that kind of proof, too.  Undeniable, substantial, hard evidence that the All Mighty does exist.  Thanks.

Oh.  And I should put the warning in here that if the discussion in this thread becomes belligerent, hateful, flaming, trollish, argumentative, mean-spirited or anything other than a respectful and polite debate it will be closed before you can say, “Rumpelstiltskin.”  And any offending parties will be subject to discipline and warnings up to and including banning.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 01:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Why should I even bother trying to debate you when you have it set in your mind that you can’t be swayed?  If you want a debate I challenge you to prove to me that god exists.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 01:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Kahuna Makani Koa - 18 June 2009 03:52 AM

I am the youth leader at a church and I have been looking for someone to challenge my faith respectfully, as in, i respect your views and you respect mine. I am looking for an intellectual argument, not a little kid one, so lay it on me.

Nah cheers, I’ll pass this one.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 02:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I’m with Tah and gray on this one, if you’re so sure you’re right then prove it to us.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 02:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Kahuna Makani Koa - 18 June 2009 03:52 AM

I am the youth leader at a church and I have been looking for someone to challenge my faith respectfully, as in, i respect your views and you respect mine. I am looking for an intellectual argument, not a little kid one, so lay it on me.

I am an agnostic and a scientist, and am fed up with this kind of posts here.

Disprove unicorns to me. I am looking for someone to respectfully challenge my belief in them. I am looking for an intellectual argument.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 03:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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It’s just slightly impossible to prove the non-existence of something.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 04:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Let’s see…

My usual argument for such things is as follows: What evidence or argument will you accept as conclusive in proving the argument? Is there anything I could say or point to that you would consider valid? In this case, what could I offer to you as proof that God does not exist that would accept it and say ‘Yes, you are correct’?

If we postulate that God’s existance is an article of Faith, then the faithful will Believe, independant of any and all evidence or argument to the contrary. Therefore any discussion aimed at ‘proving’ a nonexistance would be futile.

How do you know God exists? Because the Bible and Church says it is so.
How do you know they are correct? Because the Bible and Church says it is so.
There are other books and other faiths that say they are also correct, how do you know they are not? Because the Bible and Church says it is so.

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1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If it does what it says, you should have no problem with this.
2: What proof will you accept that you are wrong? You ask us to change our mind, but we cannot change yours?
3: It is not our responsability to disprove your claims, but rather your responsability to prove them.
4. Personal testamonials are not proof.

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Posted: 18 June 2009 05:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Kahuna Makani Koa - 18 June 2009 03:52 AM

bla bla bla, so lay it on me.

Ok.

42

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Posted: 18 June 2009 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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God in the Christian concept exists beyond such matters as the material world, cause and effect, logic, science, and all that.  No system exists to disprove something that would exist beyond all systems.  You could disprove cases where he supposedly did interact with the material world (such as by showing that some event that is claimed to have happened didn’t happen), but that’s the limit of any disproving.

It’s easy enough for those who disbelieve to support their disbelief, though:  if God does exist, then where is the proof?  Lack of disproving is not proof of existence.  Just as you’d need actual proof to disprove the existence of God, you need actual proof to prove God’s existence as well.  And all that just about anybody in the world has seen is inference and stories that were already second-hand thousands of years ago.

Besides, it’s not up to those who have not seen any evidence in support of an idea to provide proof.  It’s the people who do support an idea who should do so.  Imagine what it would be like if you had to disprove the existence of every single faerie tale creature and myth.  How would you disprove LaMa’s unicorns?  You’d have to check every single square centimeter of the entire Universe simultaneously to do so, and that would be physically impossible (and even then it could be argued that that wouldn’t truly prove anything).  So if you’re supposed to believe in something unless it can be disproven, then you’d have to believe in a huge amount of stuff, most of it mutually incompatible.

On the other hand, to prove the existence of unicorns, all that would be needed is for somebody to show one.  Quick, simple, and definitive.  It should be simple to do, if unicorns do exist.

So while there’s no way to disprove God, it should be possible to prove that He does exist (if He does).  Can you provide any such proof?

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