G Andersson - 19 July 2008 01:11 AM

Barnett, who lived with her for eight months never mentioned anything of a child, and I can’t see any reason why it should be kept secret considering the environment she lived in.

Wasn’t Barnett’s first name Joe or ”Joseph”? That’s kind of freaky now that I think about it.
Another Joseph keeping mum about “Mary’s child”?
Is this paranormal or what? I do believe the normal and paranormal overlap like the circles in the vesica pisces, don’t you?

I’ve been reading the Davinci Blog and it mentions that Oak Island has a vesica pisces and its neighbour island has a mitre square carved in it visible on Google Earth. Coincidence or is there a common element in all the great mysteries of the world?

Olaf Palme? Let me guess! There was a theatre involved!

KeegN -

Wasn’t Barnett’s first name Joe or ”Joseph”? That’s kind of freaky now that I think about it.
Another Joseph keeping mum about “Mary’s child”?
Is this paranormal or what? I do believe the normal and paranormal overlap like the circles in the vesica pisces, don’t you?

I believe in the paranormal but I certainly don’t believe in nonsense like the vesca pisces.
Nor do the pattern of the murders form a vesca pisces either, although a few Ripper researchers tried to build a complex ridiculous theory around it.

His name was Joseph Barnett but he was called joe by some. For further coincidences it is worth-notable that Mary Kelly also saw another man named Joe.
However, as we know, Joe or Joseph was an incredibly common name in old England and still is. To try to construct any far-fetched connections is not necessary.

KeegN -

I’ve been reading the Davinci Blog and it mentions that Oak Island has a vesica pisces and its neighbour island has a mitre square carved in it visible on Google Earth. Coincidence or is there a common element in all the great mysteries of the world?

Yes, probably a pure coincidence and nothing else.

KeegN -

Olaf Palme? Let me guess! There was a theatre involved!

No, a cinema.

All the best

KeegN - 14 July 2008 02:57 PM

Does any non-religious figure compare to Jack the Hoax Machine?

Jacob Waltz of the Lost Dutchman Mine?
A guy on Craigslist.com claiming to offer directions. He can’t go because he’s tied up. Apaches maybe?
The “Dutchman” was also a Freemason, 32nd Degree.

I’ll cast the first vote in favor of Jack the Ripper as the greatest. I don’t think the Zodiac compares. In sheer volume of hoaxes, Jack rules.
But comparison can be made in the type and character of the hoaxes related to serial killers like Zodiac and the Ripper. Someone sent a fake Zodiac letter in the murder of Megan Touma two months ago at Fort Bragg. She was pregnant at the time and the father, a GI, has been arrested. Megan Touma murder. I had a feeling Zodiac would have a Mary Kelly or Roslyn type hoax and I was right.
The parallels might suggest the “Mary Kelly child” was real too. Her boyfriend DID say she had a child with her according to the newspapers which never retracted their statements. Ripperologists dismiss this as a transcription error.
Why serial killers inspire hoaxes along these lines is another question.

Mary Kelly supposedly went to Cardiff when her husband died and the sculptor of the Arthur Sullivan monument, John Goscombe, was from Cardiff. Doesn’t it look like Kelly’s name on the pedestal?

HarryOakes - 08 August 2008 06:43 AM

The parallels might suggest the “Mary Kelly child” was real too. Her boyfriend DID say she had a child with her according to the newspapers which never retracted their statements. Ripperologists dismiss this as a transcription error.

That’s nonsense. What counts is what he said at the inquest and there he nevr said anything of a kind.
I would say it’s wrong to call it a ‘transcription error’ since it was one of those numerous factual errors (presumebly originating from false word on the street) or fabricated elements that so often surrounds murder cases when they appear in the press. The tabloid press did this with a number of details connected with the case, and it is a well known fact that most of the erronous myths that surrounds the case was once created by the tabloid press.
Mary Kelly’s ‘child’ is a myth - nothing else - just like the silly myth that it may not have been her that was found murdered and mutilated on the bed.
Let’s stick to reality and the actual facts, shall we?

HarryOakes - 08 August 2008 07:52 PM

Mary Kelly supposedly went to Cardiff when her husband died and the sculptor of the Arthur Sullivan monument, John Goscombe, was from Cardiff. Doesn’t it look like Kelly’s name on the pedestal?

We don’t even know if she came from Cardiff or if the story she told Barnett of her marriage or other details from her past was true at all.
Genealogists have tried to locate her and follow every lead in order to map her identity and background but failed.

It is quite possible that some or all of it - like the killing of her ‘husband’, her trip to France and her West End adventures - was untrue (Elizabeth Stride, for example, lied about some parts of her past life - often imbedding tragic stories - in oder to win sympathy and attention) and we don’t even know if Mary Jane Kelly was her real name (as often may be the case of prostitutes). The only possible lead we have is that the landlord McCarthy stated that she on come occasion(s) received letters from Ireland, but that is as far as it goes.

In short: nothing regarding her personal history can be considered to be factually verified or substansiated.

G Andersson - 12 August 2008 01:37 PM

Mary Kelly’s ‘child’ is a myth - nothing else - just like the silly myth that it may not have been her that was found murdered and mutilated on the bed.
Let’s stick to reality and the actual facts, shall we?

What reality are we interested in on a Hoax Forum? The goings-on behind the hoax, and/or the social psychology of hoaxes, I don’t know?
I’ve done some inquiry into this Roslyn Hoax and I’ve found that the Mary Kelly in question was presented on Howard Brown’s website only a couple of months after the linked geneological webpages about a “mystery” son of a Mary Kelly, not then linked in any way to Jack the Ripper, appeared on geocities.com. How could they have “found” the page so soon? Was it part of the ongoing search for Mary? Or something type of collusion?
I’ve also been informed through e-mail contact that the father of one of the descendants died in an accident at work recently and an inquest will be taking place in Australia, reminiscent of the Mary Kelly inquest and the supposed Davies mining accident, if I may say so. Any more information on this workplace accident inquest would be helpful. I have no other information except the wife’s name is Frances and there are relatives in Brisbane.
Chris Scott (author of Will The Real Mary Kelly....) agrees with you, Glenn, about the victim’s identity being Mary Kelly and not someone else, but that doesn’t stop him from speculating on Casebook about a Mary Kelly from London that lived past 1888. Maybe he has no other leads to go on.

Like many other things connected with the Ripper saga, the erronous myths are not really deliberate hoaxes as such - with a faudelent intent - but results of misunderstandings and desinformation through the years. As in many other criminal cases.

As for speculatons, yes I am afarid all we can do is speculate as far as Mary kelly is concerned. Chris SCott - whom you mention - is one of several genealogists who have tried to track her down, as well as her alleged husband Davis. Howver, no Davis has been found in connection with any mining accident, and no Mary Kelly appears to be regsitred in any such marriage.

G Andersson - 16 August 2008 11:52 PM

I am afarid all we can do is speculate as far as Mary kelly is concerned.

If all we can do is speculate, then it’s okay to speculate on her having a son, and not take the inquest testimony over the early newspaper reports. Who says Barnett wasn’t told to forget about the son? He was never specifically asked about the alleged child so we’re speculating when we saying his testimony proves there was no son by what he didn’t say, not by what he said.
I understand your position that the inquest would not withhold this information because, if they did, then the child was someone special. He wouldn’t be just an ordinary child. He’d be a special son and you don’t want to go there unless you have to.

Elizabeth Phoenix, sister-in-law of Mary Kelly’s former landlord/pimp, also reported Kelly’s claim to have a child (2 years old in 1885 which would agree with the age--6 in 1888--given by Joe Barnett) but she never testified at the inquest.
A real Davinci Code all the way and Roslyn is a player and a clue.
All of his involvement with the Plymouth Brethren and the Theosophists and Blavatsky and thereby with the Freemasons was all post-Ripper so I disclude him as the Ripper. From Hull, not From Hell. 

MikeCovell - 18 June 2008 01:44 AM

I am working on the Dead or Alive tale at the moment and I have now purchased 10 different versions of the tale, some pre-dating it, some from after the tale. There are sooo many variations and it looks highly unlikely that Stephenson ever had a paranormal encounter!…

Dead Or Alive

To those instances in Real Ghost Stories of ghosts who have kept promises made in life to appear to those dear to them, might I add my own experience. The incident occurred to me some years ago, and all the details can be substantiated. The date was December 10, 1889, at midnight.

I was then residing in the neighbourhood of London, Whitechapel, where I had come for treatment of neurasthenia, an illness of the nerves. On the night in question, I was patronizing the infamous establishment called The Ten Bells.
In my top hat and long black overcoat, I cared not that I struck the figure of Jack the Ripper at the very wateringhole of his victims.

End Part 1