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Nambudripad’s Allergy Elimination Techniques, NAET.  Expensive quackery or miracle treatment?
Posted: 16 January 2008 12:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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Robin Bobcat - 16 January 2008 12:28 AM

‘for the most part’

Uh huh…

As for discounting the opinions of those who received treatment, I would think that would be *the* benchmark for such treatments. Unless you’re claiming that those treated are too stupid to know if their symptoms have been cured or not?

Actually Robin, that’s not something I would take bets on.  People can be made to believe anything and if they really believe in someone and that someone told them they were cured then in their minds they would be.

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Posted: 16 January 2008 02:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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gray - 16 January 2008 12:34 AM
Robin Bobcat - 16 January 2008 12:28 AM

‘for the most part’

Uh huh…

As for discounting the opinions of those who received treatment, I would think that would be *the* benchmark for such treatments. Unless you’re claiming that those treated are too stupid to know if their symptoms have been cured or not?

Actually Robin, that’s not something I would take bets on.  People can be made to believe anything and if they really believe in someone and that someone told them they were cured then in their minds they would be.

Exactly.. but his contention is that people were *NOT* convinced that they had been cured. Frankly, most medical quackery does a better job convincing people they’re getting better. And if Anotherone uses this as an argument that his treatment is legitimate, I will go ballistic.

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Posted: 16 January 2008 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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I am not discounting what they said. My point is that it is unclear if the surveyor took into account the number of treatments the children had, what they were treated for and the ability of the practitioner to do the treatment properly. These things seem uncontolled in what I saw. If this is going to be used as a major study to show Naet is not effective, it seems they should be standardized. Also, in the treatment protocol, the children needed to avoid the allergen for which they were treated for 25 hours post treatment. Was this done? I am just raising fair questions. There are studies in the journal to which I referred that controls for those things and then uses variables such as blood work to determine efficacy.

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Posted: 16 January 2008 08:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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For example, one study they published regards milk allergies. Two groups were tested by a few different blood indicators to show that there was true allergy involved. One group had no treatment, the other received Naet according to the specifications taught in the seminars. Follow up study showed no change in the untreated group, but statistically significant change in the treatment group.

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Posted: 17 January 2008 12:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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And were these studies done in an unbiased manner, by third parties unconnected with the results? Would you care to post a link, or tell us where we may find these studies? Or are you simply pulling them out of your Primary Waste Port in hopes that we might take you at your word?

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Posted: 17 January 2008 03:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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I figured I would try to post something and see if there could be a resonable exchange of ideas. Not that I think I should be taken at my word, but I was looking for some non insulting response as I mentioned a few posts ago. I guess that’s not happening here. So now you can say, well, he was just like the others, he had nothing real to offer and on and on..Well, I tried, but I have a full time job and am trying to raise a family and really don’t need to come to comments like these..so congrats..you have driven me away. Happy? Achieved you goal..now you can talk about credentials I didn’t have, grammar and syntax that proved unacceptable and whatever else..that does seem to be the purpose of this board..checking out, that’s it for me.

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Posted: 17 January 2008 04:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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You’ve said that before. Funny that it’s the guy who’s a snarky bastard that forces you away, rather than the foceful, logical inquiries posed by others. I must be easier to deal with, from a losing standpoint.

‘Happy’? Far from it. My life is a sad, unpleasant expanse of misery and drugery, from which I draw forth a great font of scepticism for anything claiming to be bright and shiny. Am I pleased that I have driven you fromt his place? Hardly, although if it means you will also quit your practice, I would be greatly elated. Doubtful, though.

I find it interesting that this ‘retreat’ happens after a claim to have studies available, which is then challenged. I would think it easy to provide examples of such studies, if they actually exist, have the information you claim they do, and are legitimate.

In any case, I’ll just assume you’re holding to your word and not coming back to this little debate. This is good because now I can tell you what I think of you, without fear of damaging your sensative, fragile ego.

You have failed to provide any information that has not been pure baloney.

Your facts and figures are wrong.

You have freely admitted that the studies were in no way properly conducted and probably totally bogus.

You cannot provide any evidence of results better than placebo, much less established, conventional treatments.

You have failed to respond to the most basic requests for the most basic information, despite your horrific typing.

Your technique is pure quackery, a scam, and pure quackery.

You have no right to be practicing medicine upon unsuspecting, gullible citizens desperate for a cure.

May Hippocrates himself come back from the dead and beat you senseless for calling yourself a medical professional.

You are ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.

Ahhh…. Ok.. *now* I’m ‘happy’. I needed that.

Five bucks says he comes back.

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Posted: 17 January 2008 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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Anotherone - 16 January 2008 08:23 PM

For example, one study they published regards milk allergies. Two groups were tested by a few different blood indicators to show that there was true allergy involved. One group had no treatment, the other received Naet according to the specifications taught in the seminars. Follow up study showed no change in the untreated group, but statistically significant change in the treatment group.

What blood tests were performed?

What are their error rates (false+/false-)?

Was the test properly randomised?

Was the test double blind?

How did the Naet product compare with a placebo?

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Posted: 12 April 2008 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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I started this thread in November 2007 in order to take the discussion off the LifeWave scam thread.

It’s interesting that this thread is just 6 pages long and here we are in April 2008.

Not necessarily significant, I grant you, but given that this technique is supposed to be so important in so many areas (not least of which is the personal book sales of the said “inventor” of the technique.

So where are the people who are eager to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the good nurse, Dr. or whoever she is this month, is the real deal?

Perhaps it’s destined to remain an undeground cult type of thing. Limited to the believers and only to be tainted when observed by scientific minds.

Yeh, that must be it.

Dave

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Posted: 12 April 2008 11:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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Anotherone - 04 January 2008 04:00 AM

Get ready to go boot shopping.
You can prove she doesn’t even exist if you want, the technique works. Why? No, not because I say so, there are thousands getting results everyday. We’re not talking about a few people buying patches here. I realize that the marketplace is not a good indicator (just check out the multimillion dollar bogus medical treatments perpetuated on the public daily) but that’s one of the points we all use. I have nothing new to add, otherwise. Like I said, all the sudies that I know about were done inhouse. Therefore, we may have objective variables (blood work for example), but the people doing the treatments were practitioners who may have the power to somehow change blood results in unexplained ways.

Okay. So i just read this thread and I think I have the ideas down.  I may have a differing viewpoint from the other forum members on this one. (So what else is new…) grin

Having lived and currently living with chronic, intractable pain for the last 6 years, I can certainly see the attraction in using a technique that promises everything for nothing. (At least nothing but a few bucks…)  If someone approached me and said they had an easy cure for my pain, but the science behind it was iffy and the technique was questionable, I would still probably take a look into it. 

Here’s the problem.  I am all too aware of the strength of the placebo effect.  Few people really understand just how strong an affect it can have!  For a short period of time, people can be convinced that their problems are over with, that their pain is significantly lessened, that everything is “all better”!  And for a while, it may be perfectly true!

The problem lies in the future.  Folks treated by the placebo effect often show that they believe they are better and also sometimes test better for a few months. After that, their symptoms/problems come back with a vengeance.  Like eating spicy foods, and then drinking cold water, the sufferer experiences instant relief.  As soon as the glass leaves their lips, however, the pain / discomfort is back ten-fold.  So it is with the placebo effect!

People are okay or a little better for a while, but then their world caves in on them and its actually worse than when they started!  So these people start going from practitioner to practitioner, trying one after another bogus remedies.  In the process, they begin to re-inforce, in a kind of negative placebo effect, their illness/pain!  They become worse and curing them becomes now more difficult because there is now a major thought affect in place!

Now, even if you find the thing that “fixes” their problem, IT WON’T WORK!  Not because it doesn’t cure the physical problem, but rather because the person’s belief in the intransigence of their pain won’t ‘let’ them be healed!  pain is that way!  Your mind decides from that point forward that you will not be healed.  And you aren’t. Ever.

Not cause harm?  Really!  hmmm

I think it is the vilest form of betrayal out there.  You take my money now, and would sentence me to a life of agony in the future, and you think it is okay.  you are not helping folks this way!  If you truly wish to help them, you must find the real reason for their physical/mental problem and cure it.  Or their pain/problem’s getting worse is on your hands.  (You bought it with every one of their dollar bills….) hmmm

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Posted: 15 May 2008 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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DavePrime - 12 April 2008 11:03 PM

Folks treated by the placebo effect often show that they believe they are better and also sometimes test better for a few months. After that, their symptoms/problems come back with a vengeance.  Like eating spicy foods, and then drinking cold water, the sufferer experiences instant relief.  As soon as the glass leaves their lips, however, the pain / discomfort is back ten-fold.  So it is with the placebo effect! . . .

They become worse and curing them becomes now more difficult because there is now a major thought affect in place!

/

Very interesting.  Can you provide a cite for us?  Thanks.

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