And I’m still waiting for that evidence the maid lied. So far, you’ve posted a single sentence from a website devoted to Bessler that says she did.

there is suggestion that she did not act alone in her accusations (Gartner)

And as today people don’t do things like this, unless they where blackmailed or paid to false witness.

When you have pissed off enemies, they go to extremes to get you. I speak from experience as well, I pissed off a Chief in the Coast Guard because I didn’t go to the bar with him. He said he was going to get my good conduct medal and had a deck hand false witness. I won that Captain mass and he got the article 7 instead. I was accused of disobeying and order but it counteracted a standing order which I had to obey.

You can see the resemblance, they didn’t get what they wanted but they did mess up his reputation, even though they where proved wrong but like most courts even now days it can still ruin a reputation. In my case only the Coast Guard knew about it, so no rep danger.

AB Hammer - 15 January 2008 01:48 AM

You know, the amusing thing is that overbalancing-style devices actually serve to slow down a spinning wheel when compared to a standard wheel of equivalent mass on a good axle. They just have so much going on that they lose energy all over the place.

AB Hammer - 15 January 2008 12:44 AM

there is suggestion that she did not act alone in her accusations (Gartner)

Yes, they say the same thing about Lee Harvey Oswald.

And as today people don’t do things like this, unless they where blackmailed or paid to false witness.

Well that’s certainly a very optimistic view of humanity. But try searching for ‘perjury’ or ‘false testimony’ on Google News for a slightly more balanced one.

Then, as now, courts can wrongly clear a guilty person, and reliable witnesses can be smeared. Do you have anything other than hearsay to prove that she had been paid to lie, as you alleged?

When you have pissed off enemies, they go to extremes to get you.

Doesn’t that contradict your previous statement? Or do the extremes they will go to not reach quite as far at making false statements?

In the final analysis, acknowledging that witnesses can be paid to lie equally undermines witness statements to the effectiveness of Bessler’s device. Accipiter is correct, what we don’t have is actual evidence that Bessler’s device was in any sense a genuine perpetual motion machine, it neither proves nor disproves perpetual motion in much the same way that Gulliver’s Travels neither proves nor disproves the existence of Lilliput.

Accipiter

I like how you put that. What it sound more like is that each claim has to be tested independently to be ruled out, and what we are dealing with here is a track record that isn’t good but there are many different possibilities and each would need to be tested independently.

Robin Bobcat

You know, the amusing thing is that overbalancing-style devices actually serve to slow down a spinning wheel when compared to a standard wheel of equivalent mass on a good axle. They just have so much going on that they lose energy all over the place

OK get a wheel and put it on a good axle. (watch it) no energy? you have to have something to spin it. LOL in a gravity wheel you have positive movements which help create positive energy and negative movements that counter act the positive movements. each vibration and thump in the wrong direction and it will make the wheel shake which will kill any good movement and stop it, sometimes a very fast stop. Now it is also true to have weights in it and when it is spun they all go to the edge and spin even longer than just the wheel. This is one of the test I have already done and it spun for almost 7 minutes compared to 5

Your work stolen?

That’s like saying someone stole your bellybutton lint.

Perpetual motion ‘research’ has no value except as a curiosity.

It does not work.

The only way to make it work is to rig the demonstration.

That you seem unwilling to accept this tells me you are either a fool or a charlatan.

Your reluctance to fully disclose your methods would seem to indicate the latter.

AB Hammer - 15 January 2008 02:41 PM

Accipiter

I like how you put that. What it sound more like is that each claim has to be tested independently to be ruled out, and what we are dealing with here is a track record that isn’t good but there are many different possibilities and each would need to be tested independently.

Hey, I didn’t really come up with it.  It was Planck’s idea.

Robin Bobcat

I will admit I am not always clear. What I was referring to the credit stolen is before I ever even started Gravity wheel work. I was and am a Blacksmith/Armourer specializing in medieval armour. I have built armour that others have claimed that they built. I have made devises in some other jobs the engineers claimed credit as their own. This type theft happens all to often.

I have only been working with gravity wheels for only a half year and have almost got it going and it looks so promising I have to watch myself from getting to excited and exposing it to soon and getting it stolen as well. What I have given out is to help prove the possibility and that due to perpetual motion having such a track record, it makes it really tough, but it helps me get prepared for when I have done it. As a smith I specialize with pattern making. I have never failed with solving any mechanical problem design. That is why I was challenge by my neighbor to solve this problem, not even knowing about Bessler’s existence.

You said

The only way to make it work is to rig the demonstration.

That you seem unwilling to accept this tells me you are either a fool or a charlatan.

Your reluctance to fully disclose your methods would seem to indicate the latter.

I have to make a living. That is my armouring, it takes time. It also takes time to invent. I allow myself only weekends and if I am sick during the week or behind in armouring I do it on the weekends. So I don’t have that much time to finish all my ideas and like I said before I have only been doing this for about 1/2 year, and have still gained leaps and bounds in progress. As for being reluctant to disclose my methods. (YES) Only a fool will show his hand before the bet is made. A statement well know in gambling.

I have not asked for money for my invention nor will I until a proven device is made, and then it would go to my lawyer with such a breakthrough. Charlatans get into your pockets. And people who goat others to give up there secrets are looking for something for nothing. That is what they where doing to Bessler. And other people have ben doing that for some of my armour secrets as well.

You can call me foolish for sometimes I think so myself but like the song goes. Every body plays the fool, sometimes. Now since this is my hobby I could care less until someone say that I am being a charlatan or something like that. for that is just not proper it is being slanderous without reason.

I didn’t take up this challenge quickly. I looked at it, and did some test, and then agreed to give it a try, and after my first attempt started turning on it’s own and turned 7 times before finding equilibrium, I then knew it could be done with every fiber of my years of experience in smithing and building equipment for my smithing work as well. All the armour that I have built over the last 22 years fitting armour to people to the point that they almost forgot they where wearing armour. The duplication of movement is what it takes. This helped me out in this quest very well. And my artisans skill is why I am one of the top 20 armourers in the world, and I strive to the next possible steps.

http://www.creationtime.com/hisbsaw.htm

Accipiter

You still brought to light. thanks

Perhaps it would be instructive to look at the history of another miraculous 18th. century machine?

Built by Wolfgang von Kempelen, and debuted in 1769, the chess-playing Turk was an automaton in the shape of a human figure