Sharruma - 31 January 2007 11:49 AM

Herbs aren’t nonsense

Some herbs don’t work.  Some do work, but not as well as sythesised remedies.  Some work just as well as (if not better) than sythesised remedies.  And some taste good in soup.

You just have to keep in mind that “all natural” doesn’t necessarily translate to “helpful”, or even to “safe”.  Tetrodotoxin is entirely natural, after all, but you wouldn’t want to drink a tea made with it.

Also, several surveys have found that herbal remedies sold by large suppliers can contain anywhere from none of the active compound to way too much (especially with things like anticoagulants).

If I grew up in a village someplace where the shaman or witchdoctor or herbalist knew me and my family for a great many years and knew the plants and gathered them by hand and prepared the remedies, well then I’d be all for them.  Even in that situation, I’d probably be much better off when an actual M.D. comes around with antibiotics and motrin and such.

Oh yeah—and Trudeau’s version of herbal remedies is beyond a doubt nonsense (at best).

Boo - 31 January 2007 11:50 AM

Just a thought: has Mickey Mouse actually registered for the forum?

I don’t think he has.

Mickey is STILL posting his ideas on this subject on the LIFEWAVE hoax thread in an attempt to divert the discussion away from the scam artist David Schmidt.

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 12:47 AM

Ah….it is good to see a little integrity now and again it warms the soul. Oops…can’t prove I have a soul maybe I shouldn’t say such a blatant untruth???

Anyway this link is a nice summary of the medical establishment in the good ol USA http://www.newstarget.com/021526.html

Land of the Free (to do as you are told!!!)

It is not surprising that the sheeple are looking for something other than the blatant quackery which is rife in the pharmaceutical industry.

NO DRUGS CURE ANY DISEASE….

What doctors say about Chemo Therapy

There is no scientific evidence for chemotherapy being able to extend in any appreciable way the lives of patients suffering from the most common organic cancers, which accounts for 80% of all cancers? (Dr Ulrich Abel. 1990)

“Most cancer patients in this country die of chemotherapy…Chemotherapy does not eliminate breast, colon or lung cancers. This fact has been documented for over a decade. Yet doctors still use chemotherapy for these tumours…Women with breast cancer are likely to die faster with chemo than without it.”—Alan Levin, M.D.

“We have a multi-billion dollar industry that is killing people, right and left, just for financial gain. Their idea of research is to see whether two doses of this poison is better than three doses of that poison.”—Glen Warner, M.D. oncologist.

“As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good.”—-Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society.

What the National Cancer Institutes OWN studies say about the toxic treatments they approve for cancer

A report from the Southern Research Institute, dated April 13, 1972, based upon research conducted for the National Cancer Institute, indicated that most of the accepted drugs in the American Cancer Society’s “proven cure” category produced cancer in laboratory animals that previously had been healthy! (NCI research contract PH-43-68-.998. Information contained in letter from Dean Burk to Congressman Lou Frey, Jr., May 30,1972; Griffin, Private Papers, op. cit., p. 5.)

“A study of over 10,000 patients shows clearly that chemo’s supposedly strong track record with Hodgkin’s disease (lymphoma) is actually a lie. Patients who underwent chemo were 14 times more likely to develop leukemia and 6 times more likely to develop cancers of the bones, joints, and soft tissues than those patients who did not undergo chemotherapy (NCI Journal 87:10).”

“The five year cancer survival statistics of the American Cancer Society are very misleading. They now count things that are not cancer, and, because we are able to diagnose at an earlier stage of the disease, patients falsely appear to live longer. Our whole cancer research in the past 20 years has been a failure. More people over 30 are dying from cancer than ever before…More women with mild or benign diseases are being included in statistics and reported as being “cured”. When government officials point to survival figures and say they are winning the war against cancer they are using those survival rates improperly.”—-Dr J. Bailer, New England Journal of Medicine

Little known fact about survivor rates in those who opt for toxic cancer treatments verses those who didn’t do anything….

Did you know that 30 years ago Dr Hardin B. Jones, Professor of Medical Physics & Physiology at Berkeley, found that the life expectancy of untreated cancer cases appears to be FOUR TIMES LONGER than that of treated individuals?

1969 Science Writers Conference of the ACS

They KNEW this 30 years ago and yet these barbaric life threatening toxic procedures continue.

With some cancers, notably liver, lung, pancreas, bone and advanced breast, our 5 year survival from traditional cancer therapy alone is virtually the same as it was 30 years ago.

Mickey Mouse is still having trouble zoning in on the REAL debate about the worthless LifeWave patches:

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 04:41 PM

“Thanks Cranky Dude for your suggestions but I am a member of this thread and am not breaking any rules by posting things that I perceive relevant to this discussion.

Why do I think the pharmaceutical discussion is relevant?

Quite simple really.

In this conditioned medical establishment which was created as a profit machine and the health of the patient is secondary, it is very apparent that people are looking for alternatives to the poisons which the conditioned mind numbed doctors are feeding them without even knowing a damn thing about their effects.

They listen to and get wined and dined by the pharmaceutical companies and push their drugs onto their patients without even the basic due diligence on their part. These people are the true charlatans, paid shills and scumbags IMHO.

Then you have “alternative” products which people claim to work, but there is no proof. Where are the double blinds they say…..well it is a fact that once you “prove” a dietary supplement works it no longer resides in that category, it is then called a “drug” for which you need $MILLIONS to even consider getting it into the marketplace and you need to be “very” friendly with government officials, FDA, FTC etc etc etc…..

Are you beginning to see why it is much safer and cost effective to have people try products, see for themselves that they work to the extent that they want to re-order and not make “claims” that can only be made by drugs, which I keep telling you DON’T CURE ANYTHING….

You are still allowed…phew….to give your own personal testimony on what happened to you when you tried product A or product B, it is not against the law….YET!!!

But to the “true scientists” and “establishment doctors” who feed us poison everyday these are anecdotal and worthless.

I say “BULLSHIT!!!” they are the only source of truth we have left…..

It is a stacked deck out there in the health world, the big guns want profit for their shareholders and they don’t care how they get it.

Lifewave is one of hundreds of companies that would fall into your “quack” category, but if they did happen to “prove” the patches worked, they would be instantly classified a “Drug” and their game would be over.

Once drugs start curing disease the profits stop coming in…...we couldn’t have that now could we…..

So YES the pharmaceutical arguement is VERY relative to this thread and if you would for one second take the blinkers off you may just see a crack of light shining though.

Long live the men and women of integrity who continue to bring us options and choices, some day in the near future these basic civil liberties may be taken away. Please check out the CODEX law which is supposedly there to protect us from the “Dangerous Quacks” unfortunately the dangerous quacks of this world do not even realize they are the quacks.

Soon when the only people who can “prescribe” pharmaceutical grade highly overpriced vitamins to the sheeple are MD’s and when what most of these MD’s know about proper nutrition could be writen on the back of a postage stamp, the use of these alternatives will be classifed a “felony drug crime” then GOD HELP US ALL….

Those that do realize choose to steer the path of least resistance, those that stand up for their beliefes and those with integrity, fall foul to the corruption.

Those men and women have my respect and I will fight for their honor, for indeed without them we may aswell just hang up the boots now, instead of slowly rotting to death from the inside out.

This is not about “Lifewave” it is a much larger picture than that.

Au Revoir”

Sigh….Mickey just doesn’t seem to interested in his own thread.

Anyway this link is a nice summary of the medical establishment in the good ol USA http://www.newstarget.com/021526.html

That link’s to a bunch of rubbish (with an occasional bit of truth, such as the opening part about ads on television hinting at more than what the product is likely to do) written by a guy who’s using it to advertise his own book on his own “alternative” drugs that he’s selling.

Razela - 05 February 2007 10:16 PM

Sigh….Mickey just doesn’t seem to interested in his own thread.

Well then, I suppose that means his real purpose in bringing all that up isn’t to educate people about it.

NO DRUGS CURE ANY DISEASE….

All the ones I listed do.  So do many that I didn’t list.

What doctors say about Chemo Therapy

A bunch of quotations copied and pasted and recopied and repasted and recopied and repasted and recopied and repasted out of context and provided without a clue as to where they came from so that we can’t see if they’re even actual quotations doesn’t mean much of anything.  I was able to track down one of your quotations, though, and find the actual context:

“A study of over 10,000 patients shows clearly that chemo’s supposedly strong track record with Hodgkin’s disease (lymphoma) is actually a lie. Patients who underwent chemo were 14 times more likely to develop leukemia and 6 times more likely to develop cancers of the bones, joints, and soft tissues than those patients who did not undergo chemotherapy (NCI Journal 87:10).”

 
The actual article is “Boivin, Jean-Francois, Hutchinson GB, Zauber AG, et al: The incidence of second cancers in patients treated for Hodgkin’s disease. Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Vol. 87, No. 10, May 17, 1995, pp. 732-41”.  You can read it here, if you are subscribed.  I’m not subscribed, but I was able to find this quotation from the researchers’ abstract:  “Without doubt, the benefits of treatment of Hodgkin’s disease outweigh the risk of a subsequent malignancy.”  That’s hardly a scathing condemnation of chemotherapy, now, is it?  I wonder why the anti-chemotherapy people only quote peoples’ paraphrases of the article, and not the article?  Perhaps because then people would be reading things like these quotations from the same journal, by researchers who worked with the project:

“Today, cures [for Hodgkin’s disease] and long term survival are possible for 75% of patients.  This remarkable victory, however, is not without consequences, because approximately one in nine patients develops a new cancer within 15 years.”

“However, despite the consequences of friendly fire on normal tissue, the phenomenal success of treatment for Hodgkins disease is ground gained in the battle against cancer.”

The worst that they had to say was: “Overall, 521 patients (or 5%) developed a new invasive cancer, whereas the expected number would have been 191 (or 1.8%) based on general population rates and an average follow-up of 7.1 years.  In absolute terms, an extra five cancers per year occurred per 1000 patients.”  That’s the researchers decrying chemotherapy being a lie and a scam?  Hardly.  After all, that’s 5% of the survivors of Hodgkins disease, out of the 75% saved by chemotherapy—as well as by all other treatment methods.  These people wouldn’t be suffering long-term effects if the chemotherapy hadn’t cured them of Hodgkin’s disease.

And besides:

“Because the armamentarium most often includes [along with the radiation treatment] drug combinations, it has been difficult to determine the carcinogenic potential of individual agents.”

“Adverse effects seen today, however, mirror the treatments of yesteryear and are not applicable to current regimens that assault tumour with more lethal force and normal tissue with less toxicity.”

Is chemotherapy perfect?  No.  Does it save lives?  Yes.  The very article that you yourself deem to be valid evidence says so.

With some cancers, notably liver, lung, pancreas, bone and advanced breast, our 5 year survival from traditional cancer therapy alone is virtually the same as it was 30 years ago.

Assuming that this is true (which I can’t tell because you again don’t give any clue as to where you find your information) this means that, using the treatments they had thirty years ago, only some cancers have virtually the same mortality rates as before.

Well, Mickey Mouse has conceded the argument, although without actually admitting it:

One company that is coming dangerously close to an FDA lawsuit is Waiora. They have a liquid zeolite product which seems to be a very powerful oral chelator. The patent on which their product is based claims to kill 100% of epithelial cell cancers. They are making millions and will be taken out by the roots very soon.

More from Mickey Mouse:

“Accipiter,

Point taken on this end.

However the actual point I was trying to make, was that NO DRUGS actually cure any disease. And I mean cure like Vit C cures scurvy or water cures dehydration…..

Not like morphine cures my pain but the problem would still exist if I stopped taking the morphine…..or antibiotics send the virus packing for a while until it comes back with a vengeance only for the same antibiotic to be powerless to stop it…..

Are you aware of any drugs that cure a disease??
Please don’t answer on this thread you better use the one Dave set up…..”

Okay. . .I listed a whole bunch of drugs that cure diseases.  You come back saying that no drugs cure diseases, and then in the very next paragraph describe how at least one class of drugs does cure diseases (“antibiotics send the virus packing”).
. .
.

You ask if any drugs cure disease.
I tell you some.
You ignore those and say that no drugs cure disease.
You say at the same time that drugs can cure disease.
You ask if any drugs cure disease.

You are obviously very confused.  I simply don’t know how to respond to you until you get your own confusion straightened out.  I would suggest that you learn what a “drug” is, and what is meant by “curing a disease”.