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The Illuminati
Posted: 12 December 2006 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Intelligent human beings must always remember that the soul obtains a human form after an evolution of many millions of years in the cycle of transmigration. The material world is sometimes compared to an ocean, and the human body is compared to a solid boat designed especially to cross this ocean. The Vedic scriptures and the acaryas, or saintly teachers, are compared to expert boatmen, and the facilities of the human body are compared to favorable breezes that help the boat ply smoothly to its desired destination. If, with all these facilities, a human being does not fully utilize his life for self-realization, he must be considered atma-ha, a killer of the soul. Sri Isopanisad warns in clear terms that the killer of the soul is destined to enter into the darkest region of ignorance to suffer perpetually.
  There are swine, dogs, camels, asses, etc., whose economic necessities are just as important to them as ours are to us, but the economic problems of these animals are solved only under nasty and unpleasant conditions. The human being is given all facilities for a comfortable life by the laws of nature because the human form of life is more important and valuable than animal life. Why is man given a better life than that of the swine and other animals? Why is a highly placed government servant given better facilities than those of an ordinary clerk? The answer is that a highly placed officer has to discharge duties of a higher nature. Similarly, the duties human beings have to perform are higher than those of animals, who are always engaged in simply feeding their hungry stomachs. Yet the modern soul-killing civilization has only increased the problems of the hungry stomach. When we approach a polished animal in the form of a modern civilized man and ask him to take interest in self-realization, he will say that he simply wants to work to satisfy his stomach and that there is no need of self-realization for a hungry man. The laws of nature are so cruel, however, that despite his denunciation of the need for self-realization and his eagerness to work hard to fill his stomach, he is always threatened by unemployment.
  We are given this human form of life not to work hard like asses, swine and dogs but to attain the highest perfection of life.

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Posted: 12 December 2006 08:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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The Vedic system of acquiring knowledge is the deductive process. The Vedic knowledge is received perfectly by disciplic succession from authorities. Such knowledge is never dogmatic, as ill conceived by less intelligent persons. The mother is the authority to verify the identity of the father. She is the authority for such confidential knowledge. Therefore, authority is not dogmatic. In the Bhagavad-gita this truth is confirmed in the Fourth Chapter (Bg. 4.2), and the perfect system of learning is to receive it from authority. The very same system is accepted universally as truth, but only the false arguer speaks against it. For example, modern spacecraft fly in the sky, and when scientists say that they travel to the other side of the moon, men believe these stories blindly because they have accepted the modern scientists as authorities. The authorities speak, and the people in general believe them. But in the case of Vedic truths, they have been taught not to believe. Even if they accept them they give a different interpretation. Each and every man wants a direct perception of Vedic knowledge, but foolishly they deny it. This means that the misguided man can believe one authority, the scientist, but will reject the authority of the Vedas. The result is that people have degenerated.

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According to the Vedic system, knowledge which is achieved from the greatest authority is to be considered perfect. According to the Vedas, there are three kinds of proof: pratyaksa, anumana and sabda. One is by direct visual perception. If a person is sitting in front of me, I can see him sitting there, and my knowledge of his sitting there is received through my eyes. The second method, anumana, is auricular: we may hear children playing outside, and by hearing we can conjecture that they are there. And the third method is the method of taking truths from a higher authority. Such a saying as “Man is mortal” is accepted from higher authorities. Everyone accepts this, but no one has experienced that all men are mortal. By tradition, we have to accept this. If someone asks, “Who found this truth first? Did you discover it?” it is very difficult to say. All we can say is that the knowledge is coming down and that we accept it. Out of the three methods of acquiring knowledge, the Vedas say that the third method, that of receiving knowledge from higher authorities, is the most perfect. Direct perception is always imperfect, especially in the conditional stage of life. By direct perception we can see that the sun is just like a disc, no larger than the plate we eat on. From scientists, however, we come to understand that the sun is many thousands of times larger than the earth. So what are we to accept? Are we to accept the scientific proclamation, the proclamation of authorities, or our own experience? Although we cannot ourselves prove how large the sun is, we accept the verdict of astronomers. In this way we are accepting the statements of authorities in every field of our activities. From newspapers and radio we also understand that such and such events are taking place in China and India and other places all around the earth. We’re not experiencing these events directly, and we don’t know that such events are actually taking place, but we accept the authority of the newspapers and radio. We have no choice but to believe authorities in order to get knowledge. And when the authority is perfect, our knowledge is perfect.
  According to the Vedic sources, of all authorities Krsna is the greatest and most perfect (mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya). Not only does Krsna proclaim Himself to be the highest authority, but this is also accepted by great sages and scholars of Bhagavad-gita. If we do not accept Krsna as authority and take His words as they are, we cannot derive any benefit from Bhagavad-gita. It is not dogmatic; it is a fact. If we study

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Posted: 12 December 2006 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Mukunda dasa - 13 December 2006 12:59 AM

Intelligent human beings must always remember that the soul obtains a human form after an evolution of many millions of years in the cycle of transmigration. of life.

You may believe this, others may not.

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Posted: 12 December 2006 11:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Well, both of David B.‘s replies were dead-on accurate and insightful, as were all the other obsrvations.

I didn’t know we were suppressing the Hare krisha’s….are we?  They still sell incense at airports, hold their meetings in public without fear of reprisal in any form, freely doing thier own thing, which is fine with me, although I do think they fall under the distasteful heading, ‘Cult’.  (The major condition being that, once in, it is difficult to get back out.)

When I first started reading the original posting, I thought, ‘Great, something for the benefit of mankind,’ but all that was ever stated was how they wee pushed around by the Illuminati 3rd World Order (did they merge, like tribes on Survivor?).

Any poor soul who finds this stuff appealing is free to listen to it, and fall for it, as far as I know.  Is that true?  So where is this guy’s problem?


Dan, eager to hear what has actually been done to persecute these flower-and-incense sellers, protected by our own Supreme Court and the first ammendment, free to make a nuisance of themselves in airports and other public gathering-places

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Posted: 13 December 2006 06:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Mukunda dasa - 13 December 2006 01:00 AM

The Vedic system of acquiring knowledge is the deductive process. The Vedic knowledge is received perfectly by disciplic succession from authorities.

These two statements are contradictory. If your source of knowledge is deductive, then argument from authority would be a fallacy. Also deductive processes are not perfect, merely logic complete (i.e. if your premises are correct, the deduced conclusion necessarily follows from them). Your premises cannot be demonstrated to be perfect, you merely assume they are based on the fact that they come from a recognised ‘authority’, who you have confidence in because of a book, which you believe because it came from an authority, who you have confidence in because of a book, reductio ad absurdum.

Actually I doubt you even know what a deductive process is. Your clear ignorance of the scientific method, logic, critical thinking and, it must be said, grammar, do not give me much confidence that you speak from the slightest authority on the subject.

According to the Vedic system, knowledge which is achieved from the greatest authority is to be considered perfect. According to the Vedas, there are three kinds of proof: pratyaksa, anumana and sabda. One is by direct visual perception. [...] The second method, anumana, is auricular. [...] And the third method is the method of taking truths from a higher authority.

So presumeably you believe a man can fly, that Milli Vanilli are a really talented pop/dance combo, plus whatever your guru tells you.

According to the Vedic sources, of all authorities Krsna is the greatest and most perfect (mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya). Not only does Krsna proclaim Himself to be the highest authority, but this is also accepted by great sages and scholars of Bhagavad-gita. If we do not accept Krsna as authority and take His words as they are, we cannot derive any benefit from Bhagavad-gita. It is not dogmatic; it is a fact. If we study

Krishna is a perfect authority because he said so! And he should know, what with being a perfect authority and all! Deductively, you cannot see the problem in that?!

Oh, and something to ponder before your next diatripe (sic).

Baghavad Gita 2:42 - Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas.

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Posted: 13 December 2006 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Perfect David:  “Your premises cannot be demonstrated to be perfect, you merely assume they are based on the fact that they come from a recognised

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SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

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Posted: 13 December 2006 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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hulitoons - 13 December 2006 01:15 PM

David has clarified this well here but perhaps a visual image might also help and I hope it makes sense:  A tree with only a single leaf is sadly done and dying, but a tree with a dizzying multitude of leaves has a lifetime of hope
Or did I just make things worse again?

Perhaps you should leaf well enough alone, Hulitoons. . .  wink

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Posted: 13 December 2006 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I think you’re right Accip….........

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SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

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Posted: 13 December 2006 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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hulitoons - 13 December 2006 01:15 PM

Nevertheless, everyone has their own internal Truth they must follow initially.  But that Truth should be open to pruning growth by listening to other contending voices (or written books) outside of self and a single ‘other’ voice (or book). 

David has clarified this well here but perhaps a visual image might also help and I hope it makes sense:  A tree with only a single leaf is sadly done and dying, but a tree with a dizzying multitude of leaves has a lifetime of hope
Or did I just make things worse again?

Nope, I think that’s quite good.

Learn anything and everything. Question anything and everything. And never stop trying new things.

In other words, grow, from your first day - to your last.

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Posted: 21 December 2006 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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The Illuminati

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Posted: 21 December 2006 10:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Illuminati threads merged. Please check the first post for the latest update.

(I hate the merging software…)

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