3 of 6
3
F__ck You Guns (from Jezebel)
Posted: 19 December 2012 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8381
Joined  2005-04-17

In my experience over too many years and being in an assorted array of compromising positions and emotional upheavals from strangers, friends, acquaintances, and family members, I have learned a very important lesson:  human beings are the most unpredictable animals ever to have roamed this Earth.  That makes even the most seemingly calm, collected and in ‘command’ individual just as dangerous as they may also be compassionate given the tides of circumstance.

Having recognized this, no matter how well controlled the best of us might be, I also recognize that all humans, like all other animals, are capable, very capable of doing things they would never think of doing, and even lecture against, when afraid, depressed, angry and even accidentally.

We so easily remove the claws from little cats to prevent harm just to our upholstery or ourselves, yet we easily seek out to provide ourselves with ‘claws’ (any kind) just to make ourselves feel safe.  Interestingly, we also consider that our cats don’t really need to hunt because, after all, we provide them with sustenance from the counters of our own grocery stores.

Most people who hunt do so for sport, not because they need to, after all, they can just as easily provide their tables from grocery stores as easily as they provide for their cats.  In case you’re wondering or jumping to the idea that it’s cheaper to hunt, I have to consider the cost of the guns or bows and also the cost of ammunition (bullets or arrows), the gas to get to permitted hunting grounds, protective clothing, gadgets, blinds etc. also necessary…........and this includes the cost of traps.  It might then be more efficient and less costly to just visit your grocery store or slaughter house.

There are, of course, situations where this kind of activity is certainly necessary:  if civilization is hours from home base and home base is in the middle of wild, untamed conditions.

Yes, I do think all of us should have the tools we need to protect ourselves, absolutely I do.  Which is why I pay taxes for those services:  Policemen, firemen, military, navy etc.  These are my weapons.

 Signature 

SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2012 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8446
Joined  2006-02-28

Believe me…. I know hunting is expensive and could be considered by some as “sport”; The Michigan Department of Natural Resources anticipates and manages some of the the wild game in Michigan for anticipated selective harvest… I chose to participate this year [unsuccessfully] although part of my reason for going was to guide my daughter on her first hunt. You cannot instill that kind of knowledge and heritage into your children by video or textbook… and I would hope that you could understand that I would prefer that she learn from her father than from some random guide who I do not know what their particular ethics or habits are (good or bad). I will not go hungry because I didn’t kill something for dinner… but I have the knowledge and skills necessary to do so and would like to pass those skills on to my offspring should they ever find themselves in circumstances where it is a matter of survival (often said: we are nowadays FAR removed from the hunting and gathering process and the “gut pile” is a ugly truth that is foreign to most people in modern society - I go so far as to butcher my own meat too.)

As for personal protection: there was a situation where my wallet, my spouse’s purse, and my set of keys were stolen out of the car. This meant that the person had access to my house and knew my address until I could change my locks (which meant I needed to replace my bank and credit cards + ID first). That evening I slept with my shotgun out and next to the bed in case the theif decided to try to enter my house. I even placed a sack of empty pop cans against the door to alert me of someone entering… and these cans fell over in the middle of the night, so you can imagine there WAS a point that night where I was in total fear for my life and the life of my family members… fortunately it was only gravity doing what it does to precariously balanced objects - but know this… there is NO way that police were going to guard my home for me all night long… that was MY responsibility and I had the tool for that task. I WOULD have used it to defend and protect me and mine.

As far as mental illness, rage, revenge, self-harm, or any of the other ways that firearms end up getting a bad reputation by the user - the bottom line for me is that the user chose a dangerous tool (and in most cases they use them to devastating effect) to perform their action. I cannot defend their behavior and cannot fault the tool for operating the way it was intended (to fire a dangerous - usually lethal projectile at an intended target). When I was going through a very rough period in MY life I chose to distance myself from those tools to remove any temptation to use them in a way that would impact others or myself if I made some strange decision to go use a firearm against myself or another human (Some of you know I previously had a LOT of suicidal ideation going on and have had other family members chose to end their own lives - so I was a high risk for that behavior even though I did not even once try to obtain a firearm for that purpose at that time).

People will chose to act upon their impulses however they can with whatever tool they can obtain and for some reason a fair amount of very sick people end up getting their hands on very dangerous and powerful firearms and I cannot understand how NOBODY had a clue that these people didn’t give off some sort of warning to at least one acquaintance that something catastrophic was possible from these people. I am not going to blame the acquaintances for NOT stopping these random acts and impulsive behavior… but I will not sit by and read the opinions without at least sharing my viewpoint and stating that I do not blame the tool for the behavior of the user. I totally agree with the statement that in a world without guns we would be fighting with whatever lethal tool was most effective and easy to use and believe me when I say that someone who “snaps” is GOING to use that tool to “make a statement” or “vent their rage” or “end their life”. We humans have a VERY long history of doing just that beginning with rocks and sticks (clubs)... and now the tool in vogue is a firearm. In the 20+ years I have owned my firearms they have NEVER ONCE gone off on their own or injured another human being. The tool is not evil, it is not corrupt, it has no soul… it is just an inert tool.

This is a very emotional subject and I doubt that everyone will agree with my opinion and beliefs… such is life - you are entitled to your opinion and beliefs and I am not going to be baited into defending a random act of violence with a firearm (even one designed to do so efficiently and effectively like an “assault rifle”).

 Signature 

Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans. - John Lennon
You can twist perceptions, reality won’t budge. - Rush

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2012 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8381
Joined  2005-04-17

Timothy McVeigh and associate used explosives, not guns.  9-11 terrorists used hijacked planes.  Others have used chemicals.  All of these were, of course, lethal.  So, yes, people will use whatever they can with effect.

I also understand the fear you felt when items were not only stolen, but which became openings into your sanctum.  I too experienced some of this when first a 12-gauge shotgun was held to my head and then later in ongoing dreams being fearful this same person would come again. 

But Oppie, you are also NOT encouraging use of ‘assault’ weapons by your children or housing an armoury of assorted deadly items.  What you have chosen for you and your children is a far cry from believing in a make-shift militia to posture in public either. 

When I was very young my father hunted because he had to in order to feed his family.  He could not afford to buy much in the way of groceries so we mainly ate what he grew, rabbits he raised, and what he hunted.  I, myself, am not a stranger to skinning, gutting and preparing squirrel.

I found your impromptu ‘alarm’ system pretty darn smart too.  In the end, there are many things we can do to protect ourselves using ‘prevention’.  Things like locking doors or if you live in a city, putting bars on windows.  Installing security alarm systems; installing air-phones (these are push button to talk intercoms) at the front and/or back doors; installing outside video cameras or yard motion-activated lights; alerting the police when something is stolen or about odd or unusual activity.  Creating emergency plans, keeping emergency ladders available, and also informing children how to dial the police, or where to run or which neighbor to alert a problem.  There are many threats to a home besides a gunned intruder, there are fires and electrical explosions too from stored fuel and even paint.

 Signature 

SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2012 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8164
Joined  2005-02-06

I think that feeling threathened is part of the problem. You feel threathened and arm yourself, BECAUSE of high gun prevalence (and violence prevalence) in your country. You assume any intruders to have guns.

I have never felt unsafe in my house. Here in The Netherlands, home invasions are very rare. Burglars carrying guns even more so. Chances that you get killed in your own house are very small here (when it happens, it are mostly relational drama’s).

In a situation like Oppies, where I would know someone has my keys and address, I would definitely not feel happy and certainly unsafe: but I would not fear for my life, I would fear for my properties instead. People getting killed by burglars is rare here, exactly because gun prevalence is low and as a result, burglars are seldom armed. I think that is an important difference between the US and my country.

So BECAUSE of high gun prevalence in your country, you feel unsafe and a need to arm (and indeed, you are glad to have arms in the situation you describe).

 Signature 

———
The Kruger-Dunning effect is rampant on internet fora.
J. Kruger & D. Dunning (1999), Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. J Pers Soc Psychol. 77, 1121-1134

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 December 2012 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8381
Joined  2005-04-17

author=“LaMa” date=“1356024954”
I have never felt unsafe in my house. Here in The Netherlands, home invasions are very rare. Burglars carrying guns even more so. Chances that you get killed in your own house are very small here (when it happens, it are mostly relational drama’s).

In my situation this was the case.  It was the man I was married to at that time (back in the 70s) who had put me in the hospital twice.  He also liked knives so I removed all of those from my apartment.  The rifle was his father’s. 

I do not feel afraid now though and haven’t for many years.  A policeman lives just across the street from us and a State trooper lives the next street down.  We are also near Aberdeen and the Proving Grounds so military are always very close.  I depend on these people, and my taxes support their wages.  That’s exactly why we have them.  They are well trained, certainly better equipped than I would ever be.  My life is involved in other platforms and I want it to remain that way.

Of course, tomorrow is 12/21/12 so I may have zombies hammering down my door by midnight…................?

 Signature 

SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2012 12:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8446
Joined  2006-02-28

I was more concerned about an intruder entering into my home while my family slept and intended to rob the house without interaction with me or mine… My kids were too young to defend themselves from ANY intruder (armed or otherwise) and I felt more comfortable with the firearm in my possession rather than not knowing what tool was being used against me and would hope that an intruder would back down/flee rather than enter into the home of someone who is armed.

I completely understand your statement LaMa… but your country has probably had some crime where an intruder entered and harmed the occupants even though it wasn’t a firearm as the tool used… it is the nature of some to covet the possessions of others over the respect for their expectation of freedom from the violence and/or trauma of being violated by another who stole those possessions, Again; I cannot understand the mindset aside from greed and covetousness. I was concerned NOT because of the prevalence of guns… but because someone had total access to my house regardless of whether I used the deadbolt or not (which I rarely did use prior to that night.) A person who came into the house may do ANYTHING when they find the place occupied (hopefully it would be flee or NOT ENTER - but you just never know)

Nope… not a weapon hoarder… not part of the “Michigan Militia”. Those kind of people are exactly the kind of people the “rant” was a major focal point.

If zombies do come, a firearm is a good tool until the ammunition runs out… ... Gimme a good stout blade to pierce and decapitate with (yes, I own a machete and a couple of stout huntng knives - so I am ready!)

 Signature 

Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans. - John Lennon
You can twist perceptions, reality won’t budge. - Rush

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2012 05:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  10731
Joined  2008-02-21

And a gun, for a zombie apocalypse just rings the dinner bell every time you pull the trigger…. Nice in a “Gotta run away” position, but a halberd or axe would probably be more efficient.. and more importantly.. “Quiet”.

As for the other issues, for the record i own an “assault rifle”. 9mm carbine. Shoots handgun rounds. I have also owned other weapons including an ak-47. (Sturdy but inaccurate as all get out!)

Two pistols (or more) are just as destructive as ANY “assault rifle”. And ANY caliber can be used for “hunting” wild game. (Even a .22, if one is fast and accurate enough.)  They are, as Oppie said, TOOLS. Nothing more.  I use mine to shoot for enjoyment.  Not much else.  There was a time when I could get around well enough to hunt, and at that time I had the rifles in better calibers to properly take down animals.  (Though a .223 makes an excellent small to mid-sized hunting round.)

In places where concealed carry was opened up, gun rates among common citizens (barring gang-types) went DOWN.  Look it up on the net. I haven’t the time or resources to do so at the moment, I’m sorry.  (Kind of in my own little “life and death” struggle at the moment.)


PEOPLE kill.  We have to figure out WHY they do so.  Everything else is static.

 Signature 

“Always, I Do What Is Necessary” - Rissa Kerguelen
Go to my Blog. It’s lonely.

I Am Still The Black Swan Of Trespass On Alien Waters
To the believer no proof is required; to the skeptic no proof is sufficient.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2012 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8381
Joined  2005-04-17

Okay, let’s see, there are quite a few folks who are either expecting war or are currently AT war?

Assault  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the criminal act. For tortious aspects of assault, see Assault (tort). For other uses, see Assault (disambiguation).

In law, assault is a crime that involves causing a victim to apprehend violence. The term is often confused with battery, which involves physical contact. The specific meaning of assault varies between countries, but can refer to an act that causes another to apprehend immediate and personal violence, or in the more limited sense of a threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force.[1][2] Assault in some US jurisdictions[which?] is defined more broadly still as any intentional physical contact with another person without their consent; but in the majority of the United States, and in England and Wales and all other common law jurisdictions in the world, this is defined instead as battery. Some jurisdictions have incorporated the definition of civil assault into the definition of the crime making it a criminal assault to intentionally cause another person to apprehend a harmful or offensive contact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
The assault rifle became the standard military rifle in the post-World War II era. The Soviet Union led the way with the AK-47, and other nations followed later. Combat experience during the World Wars had shown that most infantry combat took place at 200–300 meters (218–328 yards) distance and that the winner of any given firefight would most likely be the one with the highest rate of fire. The rifle cartridges of the day were therefore unnecessarily powerful, producing recoil and report in exchange for marginal benefit. The lower power of the intermediate cartridge meant that each soldier could fire more bullets faster and/or with less recoil and its lighter weight allowed more ammunition to be carried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon
A weapon, arm, or armament is a tool or instrument used in order to inflict damage or harm to enemies or other living beings, structures, or systems. Weapons are used to increase the efficacy and efficiency of activities such as hunting, crime, law enforcement, and warfare. In a broader context, weapons may be construed to include anything used to gain a strategic, material or mental advantage over an adversary.

While ordinary objects such as sticks, stones or cars can be used as weapons, many are expressly designed for the purpose – ranging from simple implements such as clubs to swords and guns and on to complicated modern intercontinental ballistic missiles, biological and cyberweapons.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tool
Tool
[tool] Show IPA
noun
1.  an implement, especially one held in the hand, as a hammer, saw, or file, for performing or facilitating mechanical operations.
2.  any instrument of manual operation.
3.  the cutting or machining part of a lathe, planer, drill, or similar machine.
4.  the machine itself; a machine tool.
5.  anything used as a means of accomplishing a task or purpose: Education is a tool for success.

So an ‘assault rifle’ can be deemed a ‘tool’ for ‘criminal intent’ or a ‘military tool’ for attacking and efficiently cutting down scores of enemies. —- I didn’t realize the U.S. was at full-scale war. 

 

 Signature 

SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2012 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5147
Joined  2005-01-27

NRA/weapon industry has the aswer: more guns!

 Signature 


“By the sweat on our brows, and the strengths of our backs…Gentlemen. Hoist the Colours! And you, madam, I warn you, I know the entire Geneva Convention by heart!”
Trust me.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 December 2012 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  8381
Joined  2005-04-17

Yep more guns also from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/us/nra-calls-for-armed-guards-at-schools.html?_r=0#commentsContainer
And one great response:

nikto Minnesota NYT Pick

And how does the NRA propose we pay for all these armed guards at schools that are already so strapped for cash? I suggest we require a hefty tax on guns and ammo, as well as a significant licensing fee for all guns.

Dec. 21, 2012 at 12:05 p.m.

 Signature 

SilentTone: hulitoons blog of just plain silliness?
UBUNTU’ in the Xhosa culture means: ‘I am because we are.)”  So, I AM because WE are

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 December 2012 10:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Five Star Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5508
Joined  2007-03-14

A mechanic can’t work without tools.  Reduce the number of guns available and fewer nutcases will have access to them.

 Signature 

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you’re a mile away and you have their shoes.

Seen on a tshirt - “If life gives you melons you may be dyslexic”

When life hands you lemons make apple juice. Then laugh while life tries to figure out how you did it.

My blog
My Website

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 6
3