Can anyone direct me to serious discussion about known and/or proven hoaxes and conspiracies of the Establishment? By Establishment I mean government or aristocracy or one of their agencies.

So nothing about alternative medicine or cryptids, or anything 9-11ish, or any theoretical cases; I’m looking for discussions on generally-accepted hoaxes and conspiracies like the Gulf of Tonkin or the murder of Julius Caesar…
Thank you
Skipper

Meh.. ‘the Establishment’ was term of political rhetoric rather than a conspiracy target. It was less a malevolent force, as one that had a vested self-interest in the status quo, and therefore resistd change, which the coffee shop crowd would blame for the failure of their political activism. The hippies would refer to ‘the Man’, though that was also a reference to the ‘enforcement arm’ of the establishment, aka the police.

the war in iraq is probably the best example. blairs ‘dodgy dossier’ about weapons of mass destruction etc

then theres watergate.

also ex irish pm beign caught wire tapping people,
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=860&dat=19830127&id=3zYQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=944DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4741,2245037

Ah, but that’s *government*, not ‘The Establishment’. See, the Establishment is the inertia, the old-boys network, the status quo. It’s not organized as such, it’s just a name given by people who want to change it. By giving it a name, they have something they can snort derisively at, and complain about its inefficiencies and outdatedness. Again, it’s mostly the realm of coffee-shop communists and hippies.

Robin Bobcat - 26 February 2010 10:57 AM

Ah, but that’s *government*, not ‘The Establishment’. See, the Establishment is the inertia, the old-boys network, the status quo. It’s not organized as such, it’s just a name given by people who want to change it. By giving it a name, they have something they can snort derisively at, and complain about its inefficiencies and outdatedness. Again, it’s mostly the realm of coffee-shop communists and hippies.

true that. i remember getting into a row with one guy who voted against the lisbon treaty because he was anti establishment, and of course he didnt read the thing. it lead to another row over what is appropriate at funerals

being anti establishment is just lazy

Pretty much, yes. If you hear someone griping about ‘the Establishment’, odds are, it’s because they want to do something stupid, like be in charge, or not have to pay taxes, or the like, and they don’t want to spend the effort of actually complaining about the things that are preventing them from doing so.. like common sense.

As for conspiracies by governments or their agents, well, there’s more there than any person could possibly even begin to list.  Every single battle of every single war, to start with; D-Day in 1944 was a conspiracy by the Allies against the Axis powers, for example, and Britain’s Operation Mincemeat could be considered to be a major hoax against the Germans.

Skipper - 26 February 2010 03:52 AM

Can anyone direct me to serious discussion about known and/or proven hoaxes and conspiracies of the Establishment? By Establishment I mean government or aristocracy or one of their agencies.

So nothing about alternative medicine or cryptids, or anything 9-11ish, or any theoretical cases; I’m looking for discussions on generally-accepted hoaxes and conspiracies like the Gulf of Tonkin or the murder of Julius Caesar…
Thank you
Skipper

Uh… why don’t you just start one?

I guess I would have to start one myself, if there aren’t any but the subject matter, for me, would have to be non-controversial. The “Cardiff Giant” of the Ruling Classes. Although a legitimate hoax would be hard to find as opposed to a simple conspiracy.

The two that I found here, and personally believe are based on real, Executive conspiracies are:

The Oak Island Treasure and Jack the Ripper. But the Ripper thread is not about the Freemasons or the Royals. And whether or not there is any treasure still on Oak Island, the workings are real and are more easily explained as a secretive and illegal Executive operation.

I would think it’s fair to go after the Victorian rulers or the British Colonial governors. Or the French aristocracy who were behind things like the Beast of Gevaudan.

1) Start a thread on the subject of your choice.
2) Current members will join it.
3) Nutters will google and join in.
4) Fun will be had by all.

Bebelicious - 28 February 2010 07:04 PM

1) Start a thread on the subject of your choice.
2) Current members will join it.
3) Nutters will google and join in.
4) Fun will be had by all.

Um, the HAZMAT suits are in the closet to the left. Go easy on the boots though, they seem to get the most wear for some reason..

Shouldn’t I be able to find one thread devoted to a hoax, perpetrated by an independant member of the public on mainstream science which too quickly accepted it because it fit in with their theory. Piltdown Man, maybe?

In Italy, the authorities are conspiracists. Why not go after them? Anything on Amanda Knox?