Oh, we’re not saying that there’s no such thing as conspiracies, that it’s impossible for a large group to do something dirty and underhanded… but what we object to is the *massive* leaps of logic required to justify some of the ramblings out there. Let’s face it, some of the conspiracy theorists out there are in need of therapy.

Dave Scotese - 09 April 2008 01:47 PM

It would be interesting to view a list of conspiracy theories that have proven to be have merit.  [...]
* the MKULTRA mind control program

Why label MKULTRA be a ‘conspiracy’? It was a secret research program undertaken by the CIA, sure, but that a government organisation conducts secret research doesn’t make it a conspiracy. In what way was what the CIA was doing illegal or harmful to the national interest?

True. One can be sneaky and underhanded, even to the point of conspiring, without being a ‘conspiracy’.

Shall we give it a try???

Meh, take it from me, it’s never worth it!

I mean, you join a global conspiracy to take over the world and run it properly, only to check the post-takeover ‘perks’ list and find you’re 43,192nd in line to hit Paris Hilton in the face with a clue-bat! Also, they promise that you’ll rule continents with their mind-control technology, but don’t tell you that it’s not available for use on ‘personal projects’.

Frankly, it’s a bit of a disappointment. If I weren’t only 695,724th on the list to give ECT to Tony Blair I’d have quit by now!

Also, there is no question at all that there was a conspiracy involved in the 9/11 attacks.  Somebody did some plotting and conspiring.  I don’t know of any people who think that there was no conspiracy at all:  even the few people I’ve heard of who say that the entire “attacks” were fake and simply created by the media are claiming a conspiracy by the media people.

I don’t believe those kind of planes can wonder off course and not be shot down. Something fishy....

Let’s see…

First off, the average government isn’t going to be responsible for shooting down a plane with a few hundred people on it if they can help it. Ok, it’s been hijacked. Fine. We wait for them to *land*, hear what the hijacker’s demands are, etc. The concept of using a plane as a weapon really hadn’t been explored until 9/11. Sure, it was a problem, but it wasn’t a *threat*. Can you imagine what the uproar would have been if the planes had been shot down before they hit their targets?

Second: The planes actually didn’t deviate *that* far from the original flight path.. A quick hop of fifteen minutes, perhaps. By the time you can get a general on the phone, explain the situation, get the Go/No Go order, and get fighters scrambled, you’re not going to have much time to find the planes and shoot them down.

Third: The hijackers were trained well. They knew how to send the correct fake radio calls, etc, that made them appear legit. A plane that is off course isn’t going to be a major concern unless it’s veering into other airspace.

Now, granted, one of the planes *did* smack into the Pentagon, which arguably should have the tightest airspace int he country. However, having radar and fighter jets doesn’t promise a plane-free experience, as one russian pilot who landed in Red Square can attest..

Perhaps it’s because before 9/11, domestic flights were not perceived as a threat and NORAD had little or no radar coverage over the mainland?

Or perhaps it’s because the hijackers turned off the aircraft transponders so they could not be picked out on ATC displays?

Maybe it was because the FAA only informed NORAD that the first flight (flight 11) had been hijacked 5 minutes before it was flown into the North Tower?

Perhaps it was because before 9/11 NORAD was only set up to intercept offshore threats, hence had no domestic air defence zones, hence no operational procedure.

Most likely it was because, as in the case of the 1999 crash of an out-of-control Learjet which took NORAD nearly an hour and a half to find and intercept even with an active transponder, real life isn’t like Hollywood and finding a single silent plane on an unknown mission amongst 5000 legitimate flights isn’t just a matter of your square-jawed hero looking to one side and catching the tell-tale glint of sunlight on a distant window.

Who knows?

Dave Scotese - 09 April 2008 01:47 PM

I think a lot of people don’t bother checking out conspiracy theories because they don’t feel confident enough in their own wits.  Once some kind of authority has established that history went one way or the other, then they are comfortable believing that it went as the authority suggests.  Conspiracy theories interest me because many of them turn out to have merit, and people smart enough to tell before any authority makes it official are shunned and ridiculed.  It is painful to watch, but at the same time, it’s very enlightening.

It would be interesting to view a list of conspiracy theories that have proven to be have merit.  This beginning of a list comes from Wikipedia:

* The French government’s attempted cover-up following Emile Zola’s accusations in the Dreyfus Affair
* The efforts by the Tsar’s secret police to foment anti-Semitism by presenting The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as an authentic text.[18]
* Operation Himmler and its Gleiwitz incident
* the MKULTRA mind control program
* the Watergate burglary and cover-up
* Operation Mockingbird
* Operation Northwoods
* Iran-Contra Affair
* Gulf of Tonkin Incident (which, oddly, has been removed)

I have noticed that anyone who points out that conspiracy theories sometimes have merit has met more criticism of late, and I assume this is because of the pervasiveness of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.  What is very troubling here is that despite the museum’s best efforts, people do not have enlightening discussions of the evidence.  It is as if belief controls the reasoning process rather than the other way around.

Agreed.  It seems like the consensus with the regular forum users is that 9/11 was indeed done by a Saudi millionaire prince living in a cave in Afghanistan.  That’s my story too.

I thought the consensus was that it was done by the hijackers on the planes.