That site mentions specifically that Roger W. Valentine, DVM, uses this procedure on his furry little patients, and that he wrote an article about it in the April 1998 issue of the Journal of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association.
In my previous post I mentioned only that Valentine had performed what I considered to be oogah boogah BS testing. To fill the details of that part in, what he did was apparently the NAET muscle testing (although I don’t think he used that name, and I don’t believe I ever heard that name until Anotherone mentioned it on the Lifewave patch forum). The testing went like this:
He had his female assistant place her right hand on Fluffy, and hold her left arm straight out to her side. He then put one hand one of his hands on a hundred or so vials that he had, and with his other arm his tried to push his assistant’s left arm down. He explained that if he is touching one of the vials (that his assistant had earlier explained were “imprinted” with the resonant frequencies of various respective substances), and Fluffy’s resonant frequencies were out of harmony with the resonant frequencies that were imprinted onto the substance in the vial, somehow Fluffy’s out-of-harmony resonant frequencies would cause Fluffy’s muscles to go weak, and and that weakness would somehow would travel up his assistant’s right hand and arm and propagate across her body to her left arm that was held out, and that it would make that left arm weak ultimately allowing Valentine to push that arm down easily. And that’s how he would diagnose what substances she was allergic to (what resonant frequencies her system was out of harmony with), so that he could then smack her upside the head with this little spring-loaded cat smacker that he had, and thereby readjust her resonant frequencies to get them back into harmony with the substances in the vials.
What a hoot! What a fraud!
This next part is reproduced from my previous post:
I then asked the good doctor to pick out several vials for which he said that Fluffy had had a very strong positive reaction, and several vials for which she had had a very strong negative reaction, which signaled strong allergic reaction and no allergic reaction, according to the tests he had run. He picked out several of each and set them on the table. I asked him whether he could repeat his diagnosis when I hid the labels on the vials from him so that he couldn’t see for which vial he was “testing” her. He said that yes, he could. I then hid the labels from him, and asked him to repeat his tests and tell me which vials fell into which category (strong or weak reaction by Fluffy). He picked the wrong vial 2 out of 3 times, thus proving that his tests were not repeatable without him seeing the labels while he performed the tests. He explained, “Well, I have to be able to concentrate and get into her [Fluffy’s] space.” Yeah, right.
What a clown and a charlatan, and so easy it was to demonstrate that to him.
Dr. Valentine, if you’re reading this, please correct any detail you think I got wrong about how you conduct your testing, and the “treatment” you administer. BTW, if you get allergies, do you ask someone to smack you in the back of the head to readjust YOUR resonant frequencies? If not, please educate the gentle readers of this forum why that’s a good treatment for cats but not for humans.
Two problems..with the autism study there were two groups, there was also a control group..but the big problem is this..and I thought this would be the problem with this forum: We can argue all day about whether there were good enough studies done, about whether Nambudripad is a fraud whether certain doctors are really quacks and knowing what they are doing. I will grant you everything if you like..the studies are poorly done and should not even be called studies, the people involved are largely out of their mind and the technique doesn’t always work. Let’s also add that the ideas are ridiculous and defy real science. I’ll even trhough in that my grammar and posting style is hard to follow (just kidding, trying to do better in the middle of the night or early am)—but I really have no interest in defending these things; all I know is that the technique is effective, usually. Again, I could give so many case histories that have surprised me on skin rashes alone which I think we would all say are objective in terms of viewing. Also, the videos of the autistic children from the beginning of year one to the end can’t be denied. Of course, you only have my word on this but, hey, that’s what I’m here for..to tell you the side of one person’s real experience over some eight years. So do what you want with the picking at the details..you may have valid points, but we are still left with a technique which I personally have seen help so many in ways that just actually happen..too many times to be coincidence. Again, I ask..what do you do when something you can’t explain actually works. For me, I use the technique, plain and simple.
Wouldn’t you think that in the world of autism, the esteemed Devi S. Nambudripad would be the lips of those involved in research, treatments etc. They would, at least, have heard of her?
Thank you for your email about NAET. Unfortunately we know no more about
them than the information given on their website so are unable to
comment. I attach our checklist for alternative therapies that we send
to parents considering an alternative treatment for their child.
I am sorry we could not be more helpful on this occasion.
Best wishes
Christine Deudney
Senior Library and Information Officer”
Mmmm It appears word has not reached the UK yet.
“...I thought this would be the problem with this forum…“
You mean we don’t accept testimonials?
You mean we continue to delve into a subject when it has SCAM written all over it?
“...all I know is that the technique is effective, usually.“
Please don’t tell us that’s the best you’ve got.
“Also, the videos of the autistic children from the beginning of year one to the end can’t be denied.“
You mean that some videos were done or that the study carried out by the inventor of the technique are expected to be treated as valid?
“So do what you want with the picking at the details…“
Most kind, but your permission was not required.
“Again, I ask..what do you do when something you can’t explain actually works.“
Like any decent responsible practitioner you search for the truth behind the apparent “miracle”.
Researchers research, practitioners practice. Simple enough. I assume you want the doctor to whom you go to do what they find works, no? Then if you don’t like it, go somewhere else. That’s the choice all my patients exercise. What’s the big reaction. I posted some things that I have seen. Don’t like it, don’t go. Who cares? Its your body, do what you want. Some people prefer drugs as the answer to everything..good for them. Why do the drug proponents care so much about what others do. Don’t they have enough money already?
Researchers research, practitioners practice. Simple enough. I assume you want the doctor to whom you go to do what they find works, no? Then if you don’t like it, go somewhere else. That’s the choice all my patients exercise. What’s the big reaction. I posted some things that I have seen. Don’t like it, don’t go. Who cares? Its your body, do what you want. Some people prefer drugs as the answer to everything..good for them. Why do the drug proponents care so much about what others do. Don’t they have enough money already?
“Then if you don’t like it, go somewhere else.“
“What’s the big reaction.“
“Don’t like it, don’t go.“
“Who cares?“
“Why do the drug proponents care so much about what others do. Don’t they have enough money already?“
The same predictable response with total lack of meaningful content can be readily found on the Hoax Forum threads for “LifeWave Patches Scam”, “Harmony Chips Scam”, etc. etc.
Once more you bring in the pharmaceutical big business argument that so many do when they have NO answers of any value.
You started the ball rolling when you mentioned NAET on another thread, not me, not any of the posters trying to find out why you blindly believe that this technique is valid.
“I do alot of work as I have said in these related fields..for simplicity sake, I’ll just pick one..that has to do with the application in allergies..so a person comes to me..and they are often skeptical to begin with, perhaps dragged in by a spouse or whatever and they have an allergy where they can’t drink milk without getting some kind of gastric upset…I treat them using a combination of acupressure and muscle testing a technique called NAET..after a visit or two they can drink milk, perhaps for the first time in their life..“
Anotherone
in USA
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 07:46 PM Hoax Forum LifeWave Patches Scam page 221
“...after a visit or two they can drink milk, perhaps for the first time in their life..“
Didn’t understand that the first time round either. If it’s the first time they ever drank milk, how did they know they had an allergy to it?
But I digress.
Perhaps you could finally respond to a previous question.
What kind of a “practitioner” are you and what are your credentials?
and this study mentioned by you in excited terms: “The major study, which I believe is coming out after this year, as I mentioned is on autism and NAET after year two is concluded. I haven’t gotten any preliminary information about year two, but year one was phenomenal by any measurement. These were privately funded and run through a university in Cal I believe.“
Of course the study was actually funded and conducted by NAET Foundation.
“Sponsors and Collaborators
Nambudripad’s Allergy Research Foundation
An anonymous Foundation.“
I just take B6
thats good against alllegies
only take in relatively small doses though
it can give you bad dreams
also don’t take if you have surgery or a dentist’s
appointment planned, it fights the anesthetic.
Edhuk, sorry for the difficulty in understanding..they can drink milk without symptoms should be how it is written..they previously had symptoms which led them to seek treatment..I originally mentioned naet I believe only in reference to muscle testing and the discussion of it. Never wanted to be the defender here, just sharing what I have seen, but I can see that what I have seen is not held with much importance. My intention was to respond to what I took as an invitation to share my experiences with naet.
The reason I bring up the drug companies is somewhat out of frustration. Ok, naet is a hoax. All of these people are making things up led by their either devious practitioners trying to make a buck or by those poor unfortunate “doctor” types who haven’t researched this well enough to know it can’t possibly work. Fair enough. You know, most of us couldn’t get into medical school to become real doctors anyway, but we’re good hearted and try to help others. We even decieve ourselves and our patients into seeing skin rashes go away and are able with slight of hand so subtle we don’t even understand how it works that they can eat things formally forbidden to them due to reactions. Our abilities go so far as to effect even infants. But remember, most of us are just trying to do good. there are those as in any field who scam and know its a scam. Most of us actually, believe it or not, believe what we are seeing. Naive perhaps, but its hard to not believe what we see. At least for those of us who really don’t know how to research. Anyway, given all these scams. the point being they are relatively harmless. I say relatively because in the case of drugs the harm goes beyond time and money. People I have heard actually have problems from their drugs. Now again, I’m not a real doctor in the sense you know it, but I hear these things happen. I just wonder why the venom and vehemence against things like naet is not directed to others where real harm is done on a physical level. Of course, you all may be on forums blasting that also, and if so I apologize for this. I wish you all a good Thanksgiving..hope you understand that it will be hard for me to go to my patients tomorrow and explain that I can no longer treat them, even though they have had good results because the research done thus far does not support that this technique works. Or maybe I’ll just do it for a few more days to help a few more people and then see if the real doctors will let me come take out their garbage. Oh, why didn’t I go to medical school?
Thanks for stating your position without being drawn into venom spewing. I can see where you’re coming from, and appreciate your sincerity in the context of your experiences.
And I certainly get your point that if something truly works by the placebo effect, then it’s a hell of a lot better than drugs which are sure to have undesirable side effects to one extent or another. That’s a valid point.
At the same time, I hope you understand that the human mind has a powerful ability to see what it wants to see and disregard what it wants to disregard, even if that causes great harm to innocent people. Witness, for example, all the people whose lives were utterly ruined and/or who were sent to jail for as much as 20 years because people saw what they were looking for rather than dispassionately seeking the truth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_care_sexual_abuse_hysteria . And how about those Salem witch trials. Don’t we have the same DNA in us coursing through our blood as the judges (or juries?) at those trials and the people who presented evidence at those trials?
The OJ Simpson trial was a great example of people believing what they wanted to believe. It seemed like virtually every white person in L.A. believed with complete conviction that Simpson butchered those people and that the evidence proved it conclusively , and virtually every black person in L.A. believed (or at least claimed to believe) with complete conviction that Simpson was innocent. As stated by one juror, “All that [the DNA evidence] proves is OJ gots blood. We all gots blood. That don’t prove nothin.” Obviously, the ability to process information is powerfully influenced by personal viewpoint, experience, interest, and bias, not to mention edjookashon.
My own experience watching the “Curves” flim-flammery by David Schmidt (http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/2526/P4360/) convinced me that you can put almost anything in front of people and convince a number of them that it is doing them actual and significant good as long as you sound confident, and especially if you invoke some cool sounding terms like resonant frequencies, quantum mechanics, lines of energy flow, mitochondria, harmony and light, etc. That’s why sooooooo many scams like the Q-Ray bracelet and Lifewave continue being profitable long after you would have expected them to die. They’ve done studies (sorry, I don’t have the link for you now) that demonstrate that doctors are subject to an observer’s brand of “placebo effect” by which the doctors report the data that fits with their expectations, and downplay or disregard the data that doesn’t fit those expectations.
I therefore believe, like EDHUK/Dave, and submit to you, that a responsible practitioner will investigate whether a particular supposed treatment is based in sound science and repeatable independent research rather than relying merely on, “Well, it seems to work a fair percentage of the time from what I’ve observed, so that’s good enough for me” - - because none of us can know for sure how prone we are to seeing what we want to see, and dismissing what we don’t want to see.
Please answer EDHUK’s question: What kind of a practitioner are you, and what are your credentials” I’d really like to know. Thanks.
To open up a can of works: So in view of your experiences, what do you think should be the minimum level of supporting science and/or objective clinical trials that the government should require before allowing people to hold themselves out, and make money, as practitioners of a particular treatment? Should there be complete liberty/free market/anarchy?
Do you think people should be able to make a living by charging people money for administering something that has no effect other than the placebo effect?
