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A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?
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Posted By:
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Nov 14, 2004
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I received this chain letter in my mailbox:
Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.
***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)
What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452
Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??
Category: Scams; Replies: 1761 |
Comments
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Page 6 of 89 pages ‹ First < 4 5 6 7 8 > Last › |
soundstoodtome
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 | 09:38 AM
I dont get it i have the letter also. says its backed by oprah, 20/20, abc's ivestigation team blah blah balh... then it gives 6 steps
(1. immediately send $1.00 to each of the six names on the mailing list below. Include with your dollar a request to be pput on ther mailing list. IT IS THIS CRITICAL STEP THAT MAKES THE PROGRAM LEGAL)
THEN BUY A LIST OF NAMES FROM DATA LINE AND REMOVE THE TOP NAME AD YOUR OWN DROP THE BOTTOM NAME AND SEND OUT 200 COPYS OF THE LETTER WITH THE SIX NAMES TO 200 PEOPLE AND THATS HOW IT GETS GOING.
so the question is this,arent you advertising a false service? if these 6 people are just like me they are getting my dollar and throwing my request for a mailing list out because they dont have a mailing list. so now if i mail all this out arent i saying give me a dollar but make sure you ask to be put on my mailing list that doesnt exist (just to make it legal)
it is all confusing
also whats stoping me from skiping step one saving the 6 bucks buying the name list sending the letter out anyway and hoping that some other idiots send me a buck for no reason? |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 | 10:18 AM
You've just stumbled on why those things don't work. Anyone greedy enough to try it is probably greedy enough to cheat. |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 | 04:20 PM
All those elements are included to make the thing seem "legit," soundstoodtome.
The thing about "buying a service" is included because a lot of people have heard that chain letters are illegal; putting that part in is intended to make them think that these people have found a loophole that makes THIS chain letter legal. They haven't and it doesn't. |
not so cranky a guy
in usa and proud of it
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 | 04:34 PM
i am proud to live in a country that you have the choice to go into business for your self and the gov will assist all they can. sending this letter is the start of a mailorder business creating mailing lists. they can then be sod or sent out to the people WHO HAVE ASKED TO BE ADDED to your mailing list keep exact records and pay your taxes. this is the american dream to be self employed and live the good life |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 | 02:58 AM
Nice try, not so cranky. Sorry, you can spin this thing all you want, but as we pointed out by DIRECTING YOU TO THE EXACT PART OF THE POSTAL SERVICE'S WEB SITE, chain letters asking for money are ILLEGAL. Period. End of story.
Chain letters are "self-employment" in the same way as bank robbery.
Please do NOT keep posting falsehoods. |
jill
in ny
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 | 03:00 PM
I have to write to this site. I have received this letter twice. First time I threw it out, then I saw the 20/20 investigation and remember saying to myself that if I ever get it again I will try it. Well I received it again because I am on a list for opportunity seekers. My name and address was taken from a website I applied to. Anyway I tryed it. So far it has been 9 days and I just received my first response. It was only a "undeliverable, no known address" from one of my letters. I will give it another week or so to see if I get any responses. Please let me know of other people who have done the program and their outcome. I am not interested in hearing from some of you who just want to knock this system. Please take your negativity to another site. We are not looking for an argument here, just sharing stories for the better. |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 | 04:09 PM
Jill, sorry if you don't like this fact, but chain letters involving money are ILLEGAL.
That isn't "negativity," it's a FACT.
Please do NOT use this site to attempt to get others to break the law. |
DOuting Thomas
in Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 | 04:54 PM
Frankly I don't believe any of the people who wrote they made money. They've got their letters out there and they're hoping.
Of course, it's a chain letter, it's illegal, the supposed request for a list does not magically turn it into legal activity; indeed, it just facilitates the fraud with more suckers. But what's also interesting is no one has commented on the falsehood at the very beginning purporting to give Oprah Winfrey and ABC's 20/20 stamp of approval. |
jill
in ny
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 | 10:26 PM
Well I guess you're right. It's been 3 weeks and all that I received back were 4 undeliverable envelopes. I really wanted to do this as research but was hoping it would work. Anyway it doesn't so everyone should just save their money. |
fiona
in massachusetts
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 | 12:32 AM
I just want to say that Cranky needs to calm down. I think most of the people, including me, are doing research before investing capitol in something they are unsure of. Honestly, I don't appreciate having to filter through every other comment looking for bona fide information. I got real tired of reading the same thing over and over from the same Cranky guy. |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 | 02:51 AM
Fiona said:
"I just want to say that Cranky needs to calm down. I think most of the people, including me, are doing research before investing capitol in something they are unsure of."
If you're doing any REAL "research" into chain letters, then you'd already know that they are illegal. If you notice, I usually only respond when yet another person tries to claim they are NOT illegal. If people would stop making that false claim, I would stop pointing out for the umpteenth time that it isn't true.
"Honestly, I don't appreciate having to filter through every other comment looking for bona fide information."
What "bona fide" information are you seeking? Anyone who tells you that chain letters are LEGAL is lying to you and certainly NOT "bona fide."
It seems to me that what you are seeking is confirmation of your false beliefs concerning the legality of chain letters. |
Tami:Dream Catcher
in Washington, DC metro
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 | 11:37 AM
I got that letter a few weeks ago and I'm going to do it. I also have a small business and I could use more people on my mailing list. I don't think it's illegal...it's asking to be placed on a mailing list and yes we may or may not make money. People spend thousands on a business idea and if it fails, that's life. Some of us are more fortunate than others. I'd like to know if 'Cranky' or the guy in 'hell' are attorneys or just 'nay sayers'? It bothers me when someone makes an absolute comment as fact. This is not
your typical chain letter. BTW, I also checked out that USPS site and was not convinced. I was married to and dated a few lawyers. One thing I know is that the law is sometimes ambiguous. That's why lawyers make the big bucks.
It just may work for me in spite of what others say. BTW, I haven't told friends because I don't want any negative responses. Keep a positive attitude and it may work. Anybody that's ever really made it in life failed quite a few times, in many ventures, before they succeeded.
I am a sales person and have done many mailings for my company. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. I do believe this, if I give up, I lose. Also, if people have a dream and they give up because a couple naysayers pee on their dream, then they also lose.
Tami |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 | 04:31 PM
Tami said:
"I got that letter a few weeks ago and I'm going to do it."
In that case, you WILL be breaking the law. I realize you want to tell yourself you're not a criminal, but chain letters that involve money ARE illegal and if you participate in one, you ARE breaking the law.
As I've said before, the odds of you getting caught are low, but if you ARE, you should know that the postal authorities have a VERY high rate of conviction. After all, there is physical evidence in the form of the letters working against you.
"I also have a small business and I could use more people on my mailing list."
I could use more money, so I guess I'll just rob a bank. It's FUN to rationalize, isn't it?
"I don't think it's illegal...it's asking to be placed on a mailing list and yes we may or may not make money."
EVERY chain letter I've ever seen uses some variation of the "THIS chain is legal because you're asking to be placed on a list" story. That changes nothing legally.
"BTW, I also checked out that USPS site and was not convinced."
Of what? That the U.S. Postal Service knows what is legal and illegal concerning the mail?
"I was married to and dated a few lawyers. One thing I know is that the law is sometimes ambiguous. That's why lawyers make the big bucks."
Hey, maybe you should act as your own attorney with a legal mind like that.
"It just may work for me in spite of what others say. BTW, I haven't told friends because I don't want any negative responses. Keep a positive attitude and it may work."
Ah, NOW we get why you want to be involved in this nonsense. You think that your magical "positive attitude" will overcome the mathematics that PROVE that chain letters and Ponzi schemes CANNOT work. Nobody's going to tell Tami that everyone can't profit in a closed system. If you just believe, arithmetic will be proven wrong. 2+2 CAN equal 5 if you just BELIEVE.
Yes, Tami, I am a "naysayer" for pointing out what should be painfully obvious to any intelligent person who takes two seconds to think about the math involved in a chain letter.
Prediction: you'll go ahead and throw good money away on this stupid chain; then, when it doesn't work, you'll rationalize that you just didn't believe strongly enough. It'll never occur to you that you put your faith in what amounts to science fiction. |
Tami:Dream Catcher
in Washington, DC metro
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 | 06:06 PM
Cranky,
You never said whether you are a lawyer or not.
Cranky said...
"I could use more money, so I guess I'll just rob a bank. It's FUN to rationalize, isn't it?"
Now, when you use such an analogy, then I know you aren't a lawyer. Lawyers don't think in absolutes, either.
"EVERY chain letter I've ever seen uses some variation of the "THIS chain is legal because you're asking to be placed on a list" story. That changes nothing legally."
Cranky, you may be right. Give me some court files documenting cases where people have been prosecuted or arrested, dates, jurisdictions,depositions, if any, to prove your point. Saying the same thing over and over..."It's illegal cuz, I say so.", doesn't make it so.
"Hey, maybe you should act as your own attorney with a legal mind like that."
Well, whatever kind of mind I have, I'm not rude and I don't get angry because people don't agree with me.
"Prediction: you'll go ahead and throw good money away on this stupid chain; then, when it doesn't work, you'll rationalize that you just didn't believe strongly enough. It'll never occur to you that you put your faith in what amounts to science fiction."
Why do I sense some anger, Dude? It's not your business. I've been wrong and lost out before. I've also won. That's life.
The good thing is I don't need nor want your approval. I'm sorry you're having a 'hissy fit' about this, but, do you have to resort to insulting people?
What ever happened to you to make you so uptight and negative?
Relax, already.
Tami |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 02:39 AM
Tami said:
"Cranky,
You never said whether you are a lawyer or not."
Nope. I DO know how to read, however and the postal service website says rather clearly that chain letters involving money are ILLEGAL. Do I need to have gone to law school to see that?
You are not a lawyer, either, yet you say that you think that THIS chain letter IS legal. Would you please enlighten us all as to why you believe so, Counselor?
"'I could use more money, so I guess I'll just rob a bank. It's FUN to rationalize, isn't it?'"
"Now, when you use such an analogy, then I know you aren't a lawyer. Lawyers don't think in absolutes, either."
If you can find me a lawyer who says that it's EVER legal to ROB A BANK, then your "argument" will make sense.
"Cranky, you may be right. Give me some court files documenting cases where people have been prosecuted or arrested, dates, jurisdictions,depositions, if any, to prove your point. Saying the same thing over and over..."It's illegal cuz, I say so.", doesn't make it so."
Here's an even better idea. Since you belive that this particular chain letter is LEGAL and you intend to participate in it, why don't YOU find a lawyer who will back that opinion up? Tell us who it is and why he or she says that this chain letter (or ANY chain letter involving the exchange of money) is legal.
You're asking me to prove a negative. Since YOU are making the assertion that this particular chain letter is LEGAL, let's see you prove that assertion.
As for MY evidence, there are these things called "libraries." They contain books; some of those books are about scams, frauds, etc. Any decent book on that subject is likely to contain a chapter or more about chain letters and their history. You might want to read up on this subject. I have, which is part of why I can tell you with assurance that, in the U.S., chain letters involving money ARE ILLEGAL.
"Why do I sense some anger, Dude? It's not your business. I've been wrong and lost out before. I've also won. That's life.
"The good thing is I don't need nor want your approval. I'm sorry you're having a 'hissy fit' about this, but, do you have to resort to insulting people?
"What ever happened to you to make you so uptight and negative?"
Well, let's see. You're posting incorrect information on this website about an illegal activity. There is at least the possibility that other people may follow your lead and also engage in this ILLEGAL activity.
They, like, you, will lose their money if they do, plus they WILL be breaking the law. It's VERY irresponsible of you to make false claims about the legality of chain letters in a public forum. Why did you think you could advocate breaking the law and NOT have someone respond negatively to it?
If this hasn't occurred to you, chain letters are illegal because THEY DON'T WORK. They are a mathematically-impossible scam that benefit only the person who starts one.
I notice that you avoided what I said about the impossible math which would be required to make everyone involved in a chain letter come out ahead. As I said, like a lot of people, you have the irrational notion that it WILL work simply because you BELIEVE it will, despite the fact that it CANNOT work mathematicaly.
By the way, IF you actually made money from this chain letter (which you won't), are you planning on paying taxes on that money? Or do you BELIEVE that it isn't subject to taxation?
"It's not your business."
This is my FAVORITE part. I find it hilarious when someone posts something about illegal activity in a public forum and then acts surprised when someone responds to them. |
Tami:Dream Catcher
in Washington, DC metro
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 11:47 AM
Since you can not cite evidence to support you adamant statement about it's illegality, it's obvious you are just giving your opinion with no facts. That's fine. We all have opinions. However, you also like to exaggerate using irrelevant analogies and false hypotheses to make your point. I can't help but notice you are very adamant which leads one to believe that you have some evidence or are an attorney. You don't say you 'think' they are illegal. You speak as if you know from some source.
It seems as if you think most people are idiots. That we all need someone such as yourself to care for us or think for us. It's people like you who want the gov't to regulate our lives, even what vitamins we can take, force us to use drugs instead of alternatives, take our choices away because we're all idiots. Meanwhile big business, pharmaceutical companies, make big money, pay little taxes. That's okay, legal. It's interesting how we all believe and trust big business or wealthy sport guys, but think a letter asking to send $1 or $5 is ooohh so wrong and illegal. It's okay for us to be guinea pigs for big drug companies with their disclaimers "side effects may kill you or make you blind." It's okay to give 3 month old babies Nexxium because he's lactose intolerant rather than recommend soy milk. I'm sure that would suit you because it's legal and a big fat wealthy pharmaceutical company makes them and the FDA says it's okay. People like you would take away opportunities for the small guy to make money. I really love it when people like you do this under the guise of 'protecting the people'.
Well I think it should be illegal for a doctor's first course of action to be giving a 3 month old baby a new drug rather than recommend soy milk. I also think it should be illegal for an insurance company to raise your rates or drop you when you file a claim, especially since the rate you pay is based on anticipated claims. I also think it should be our decision whether we participate in gambling, alternatives and even chain letters. I think many things that are illegal should be our decision.
I don't want you or gov't as my 'daddy' and I am as a child. Yes, make us aware but don't hinder what we decide to do with my money. At the same time don't force me spend money buy your big company drugs, i.e., medication for my child that I may not want, vaccines for me or my pets. Don't use media scare tactics to induce public opinion in favor of big business and pharmaceutical companies.
This is not a chain letter any more than mass mailings are chain letters. However, if I find out it is illegal and it is a chain letter, you will be the first to know.
You know, Cranky, I like having another opinion. I'm not angry because you disagree with me. You are the one that's angry and cranky. It's okay to disagree.
Oh, yes I will and do pay taxes, because I think we all should pay taxes. It's another way of giving back. I also think the wealthy and big business should pay a more fair share of taxes.
This is a great country, even with it's flaws. America, land of the free, home of the brave. |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 04:31 PM
Tami said:
"Since you can not cite evidence to support you adamant statement about it's illegality, it's obvious you are just giving your opinion with no facts."
Tami, what part of "the Postal Service says they're illegal" do you not understand?
"I can't help but notice you are very adamant which leads one to believe that you have some evidence or are an attorney. You don't say you 'think' they are illegal. You speak as if you know from some source."
I'll repeat: Tami, what part of "the Postal Service says they're illegal" do you not understand?
"Well I think it should be illegal for a doctor's first course of action to be giving a 3 month old baby a new drug rather than recommend soy milk. [and so on ad infinitum]"
So, your logic is that since OTHER things are wrong in the world, what's one more thing? Two--or three--or a thousand wrongs DO make a right. Fascinating.
"I don't want you or gov't as my 'daddy' and I am as a child. Yes, make us aware but don't hinder what we decide to do with my money. At the same time don't force me spend money buy your big company drugs, i.e., medication for my child that I may not want, vaccines for me or my pets. Don't use media scare tactics to induce public opinion in favor of big business and pharmaceutical companies."
That's right, Tami. I personally make the bad drugs on the market and that's why I have been telling you that chain letters are illegal. Wow, that's some thinking process you have there.
"This is not a chain letter any more than mass mailings are chain letters. However, if I find out it is illegal and it is a chain letter, you will be the first to know."
Do legitimate mass mailings ask you to send money to the person on the top of the list? I've never seen one like that. Now you're just making things up to justify the nonsense you obviously want to believe in, despite all evidence which proves that it IS illegal nonsense.
I've told you that any library will have books on scams that will explain to you why chain letters don't and can't work. That conflicts with your naive belief in them, so you will not avail yourself of that information. It's more fun to babble about bad drugs, as if that has ANYTHING to do with chain letters.
"Oh, yes I will and do pay taxes, because I think we all should pay taxes."
Yes, Tami, when those thousands of dollars roll in (Ha!), you be sure to pay tax on them--and make sure to tell the government that you made the money via a "legal" chain letter. I'll look forward to the news stories about you going to jail. See, it's illegal to participate in a chain letter. It's also illegal to NOT pay tax on the money you theoretically make from one. If you DID pay tax on any money you made from a chain letter (which you won't in reality), you would be admitting that you participated in one, giving the government the evicence to prosecute you. Amusing little trap they've set up there, huh?
Funny, once again you completely ignore the fact that the math necessary for everyone in a chain letter to profit is IMPOSSIBLE. Yes, Tami, truly, in YOUR world, 2+2 = 5 if you just BELIEVE.
"This is a great country, even with it's flaws. America, land of the free, home of the brave."
...and where a sucker is born every minute. |
Tina
in minnesota
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 06:11 PM
you know what? you two should get married. then the glass could be both half full and half empty.
I must say that im leaning more towards Tammis argument. I totally agree that its ok for big business to scam people by the way they word things. do you know how many "FREE" trips Ive won. lol yes youve won a free trip, by the way mrs t____ where can we send all of the stuff youve ordered from us. (orderd....hold on there) they use fast talk and change wordig to try and trick you into ordering. so yes....I do agree with that. Also Ive noticed that Cranky likes to always get the last word. Ive read the words ITS ILLEGAL on this site at least 50 times. |
Tami:Dream Catcher
in Washington, DC metro
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 | 12:41 AM
Thank you Tina. And no thank you, I've had my share of cranky husbands who know it all.
Cranky,
You can have the last word, for whatever it's worth to you. Being right seems very important to you. I do hope you have/find good people in your life. You are so negative and distrustful. Maybe it's because your are so cranky. Lighten up!
Well, gotta go. Got lots of letters to mail. I'll keep you informed. In the event that I get arrested, can I count on you to bail me out of jail? Don't you think we've bonded through these long emails? Don't worry, that ain't gonna happen because...IT"S NOT ILLEGAL.
See ya!
Tami |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 | 02:57 AM
Tina said:
"I must say that im leaning more towards Tammis argument."
WHAT "argument?" What FACTS has she given you to convince you that a chain letter involving money is LEGAL? Please point to even ONE, thank you.
I've shown you where the U.S. Postal Service (A.K.A. the Post Office) says they're illegal. That SHOULD be enough for any rational person, but I guess I just identified the problem right there, didn't I?
Then I went beyond that and told you that if you go to your local library, you can find any number of books on scams and hoaxes (look in the catalogue under "Impostors and Imposture") which will tell you the same thing.
Silly me. I didn't realize that things aren't illegal if you DON'T WANT THEM TO BE. What WAS I thinking?
"I totally agree that its ok for big business to scam people by the way they word things."
And that has what exactly to do with the legality of chain letters? Again, your "logic" seems to be that since someone else has participated in something shady, it's therefore OK for YOU to do something similar. Logically, that would be an acknowledgement that chain letters are illegal (or your point makes no sense). Then you make the "argument" (based on NO facts whatsoever) that they are totally LEGAL. Can't get your story straight, huh?
"Also Ive noticed that Cranky likes to always get the last word. Ive read the words ITS ILLEGAL on this site at least 50 times."
Um, since this discussion is still ongoing, how have I had the "last word?"
You've read the words "It's illegal" over and over because chain letters ARE illegal and people keep coming here and trying to convince others that they aren't. When they stop lying, I'll stop correcting them. |
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