MOH Forum: The Visions of 1917 - Fátima, the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God.

The Visions of 1917 - Fátima, the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God.

Posted By:
Gabriel
Aug 02, 2005

First Vision: First the kids saw a lightening flash, they got up and began to bring the sheep together in order to go home, although they were afraid. Next they saw another flash, then they saw a woman above an holm-oak dressed in white, with white socks on her feet, with a golden skirt, white coat, and a white cloak which she wore around her head; the cloak was not golden and the skirt was all golden. She wore a gold necklace and some very small earrings. She had her hands raised and when she spoke she opened her arms and hands.

This woman said that they shouldn’t be afraid and that she wouldn’t harm them.

Lucia asked her:

- Where are you from?

- “My place is in heaven.”

- Why did you come to this world?

- “ I have come here to tell you to come here every month for six months and at the end of six months I will tell you what I want.”

- Can you tell me if the war will last longer or will end soon?

A strange question from an illiterate ten-year old girl who probably had no idea of the existence of the First World War.

- “I cannot tell you before I tell you what I want.”

I asked her if I was going to heaven and she said:

- “Yes, you are.”

- And my cousin Jacinta?

- “She will go too.”

- And my cousin Francisco?

- “That one will still have to pray his beads.”

After that she flew into the sky above.

The other two heard the questions and the answers but did not ask questions.

You can check the whole story <a href="http://biblia.com/apparitions/fatima.htm" title="http://biblia.com/apparitions/fatima.htm"><b>here</b></a>http://

Category: Religion; Replies: 26

Comments

X in McKinney, TX Member	Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 \| 09:30 AM You know, whats very odd about story's like this is only certain things happen to catholics, certain things only happen to Native Americans, or wiccans, or babtist, and Muslims'....You won't hear about a pentecostal person witnessing the virgin Mary, or having Buddah appear before him, or even Zeus for that matter....Just odd...These are perfect examples on how our minds play tricks on each other. Some people see big foot everywhere cause they want to, or UFOologist always seem to see the flying saucers (I won't discredit that) but most sightings are their imagination............Think about this....we have no true idea on what Jesus looked like, but people always see the same damned image we have come to know as Jesus.....
Citizen Premier in spite of public outcry Member	Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 \| 09:32 AM <em>Can you tell me if the war will last longer or will end soon? A strange question from an illiterate ten-year old girl who probably had no idea of the existence of the First World War.</em> Um, obviously she did if she asked that question. What are you trying to hint at, that the Virgin Mary (though one has to wonder if she really stayed a virgin even after Jesus; after all, she was married) implanted that question into her brain? Doesn't make much sense. Personally, I'm more apt to believe in a little child's tendency to make up stories, and the tendency of her parents to encourage her, seeking fame through religion.
Citizen Premier in spite of public outcry Member	Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 \| 09:35 AM Well said, Sir Stephen... And Gabriel, you're going to have to do a lot more than just point our attention to a "miraculous story" to convert people to Catholicism.
Chuck in Rhode Island Member	Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 \| 09:46 AM first off, I am not going to pretend I know much about the catholic religion...or any other organized religion for that matter but I am just curious...your title reads "The Visions of 1917 - F
Charybdis in Hell Member	Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 \| 09:50 AM The Prophecy of Fatima is a very old, very discussed, and very debunked prophecy. One of the most famous ever made as it involved the <a href="http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/05/13/pope.fatima.02/">Vatican</a>.
Gabriel Member	Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 \| 10:36 AM Well... Citizen Premier: I don't believe in any god or religion. Concerning the little girl question, I was just trying to point out that even the dialog they said they had was a lie made up by their parents or local priests for example. No ten years old child living in that particular place at that time would even know how to write. It happens that I live in Lisbon (about 150 km from Fatima) and I find the story quite amusing. Sir Stephen: You should see the thousands of persons that go every year to Fatima on their knees just to keep some promise they made. That
Mike	Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 \| 11:51 AM What do you say about the 70,000 people that were there on Oct 13, 1917. Are you going to say they were told to act like they did by the priest. If you look it up you will find news paper stories on this and pictures that show all the people looking up at the miracle. The sign that was foretold to happen. The sun, drying of the rain and mud. How do you tell this part of the story. What was fake here and who fooled every one. Not the Communist news paper. You can find the article on line with pictures. Also the quotes from the Communist leader of that region.
Paul	Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 \| 05:43 PM I have done some reading on this subject matter. I have read in a book and other writings that the officals told them the children that if they did not confess that it as a lie they would be put in a pot of boiling water. The story goes something like this the three children where lead off one at a time and told they would be next. None of them changed there story. The oldest said see could not lie and say it was not ture because it was. Yes I may be a fool but I believe this part of the story.
Martin Robinson	Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 \| 03:30 AM Reply to 'xmember' 'these things only happen to catholics,' etc...I'm not catholic, but as it is the largest Christian church in the world and the first one, with an alledged link to Jesus thru Peter the first Pope, it is hardly surprising that if there is a God and he wanted to get a message to the Christian world he would use the largest church, and speak in a language that Catholics would understand... in other words app's of the Bhudda would not make sense. many who witnessed the miracle of Fatima were not believers, including members of the press.How do 70,000 see the same thing at the same time, and all have dry clothes afterwards when they were soaked from the rain? How do we explain the prophecies which came true about the world in the 20th century, with the direct involvement of the previous Pope? Different religion's may be different paths to the same truth...
TrustGod	Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 \| 06:03 AM Those who don't believe will not see. If you want the truth, seek it and you will find it. That is the only way to be saved. You have a choice, choose now. It is better to come to God now then to never come at all. Read the Bible...it IS the truth!!! It happened, don't ignore it. Ignoring things doesn't make them false, it just makes you ignorant.
steve	Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 \| 04:20 AM I always wonder why Mary only appears to the Catholic Church.Must be a reason behind that.All the fuss about her would be over if she had appeared to Billy Graham or Joel Olsteen.Maybe this is the true church.And maybe because the Protestant church hasn't any saint/miracle workers it is jealous.And why does the Bible have to be the only thing that defines God or Heaven.Are you kidding?
Mary	Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 \| 08:33 PM Catholics are not the only ones who claim to see visions. Jews, Muslims, Mormons, American Indians and many other religions have had histories of visions. The reason that Catholics see the Blessed Mother is because she is an integral part of their religion. The higher power will come down to a people in the form that they are familiar with. Seems logical to me so it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that. So the three kids were lying? First of all, their parents and families were mortified when these kids came back and said they saw Mary in a tree. They got in huge trouble and were quite the laughingstock of the town so the parents couldn't be "trying to score points" by doing this. I'm Portuguese and I can tell you that a story like this would bring scorn and the kids would be called crazy and people would not be happy with them. The other writer was absolutely right when he said that these kids were threatened with death by the church officials and lawmen if they did not confess. They were already told that the other two kids had been killed to see if that would make them confess but they each said they could not confess and say something was a lie when it happened to them. They even were reported to be happy about it because that would bring them closer to being in heaven. As for the October 17 hoax or "mass hallucination", please give me a break. How could 70,000 people all experience the same illusion. You can't even get a jury of 12 to come to a unanimous decision much less tens of thousands. Also, as previously stated, many of the people who came were skeptics and scientists whose sole purpose there was to debunk this supposed fraud. It didn't work. Instead they came back and told even more people about the miracle and spread the story even wider. I know because my grandfather was one of the people who got a firsthand account of the miracle by some of his neighbors who had made the pilgrimage and told him the story. Remember this was in 1917 so there was no internet, TV or even radio in most little villages yet they all report almost the exact same story. As for the predictions, the first of the end of WWI and the beginning of WWII and the second calling for the conversion of Russia both came to pass. I have to admit that the third being held secret for so long and then the church coming out with the simple explanation that Pope John Paul was shot after the fact and that this should tie everything together neatly bothers me. I think that the third is much larger than that and that there is still something to come that we aren't being told about. I remember hearing that the third one was "too terrible to bear" for the people of the time and I can't see a pope being shot and surviving as any worse than the coming of a world war or the rise and fall of communism in Russia. I don't understand why people find miracles so difficult to believe in. We should be elated any time there is a sign of a higher existence. We are all too willing to focus our energy on all the negative things in the world and add fuel to that sinister fire. If we could change our perspective and look for the good in the world and each other, we might avoid the dire consequences that Our Lady of Fatima was trying to warn us about.
oyna	Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 \| 01:51 AM I was just trying to point out that even the dialog they said they had was a lie made up by their parents or local priests for example. No ten years old child living in that particular place at that time would even know how to write. It happens that I live in Lisbon (about 150 km from Fatima) and I find the story quite amusing. Sir Stephen: You should see the thousands of persons that go every year to Fatima on their knees just to keep some promise they made
oyunlar	Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 \| 12:36 PM Um, obviously she did if she asked that question. What are you trying to hint at, that the Virgin Mary (though one has to wonder if she really stayed a virgin even after Jesus; after all, she was married) implanted that question into her brain? Doesn't make much sense. Personally, I'm more apt to believe in a little child's tendency to make up stories, and the tendency of her parents to encourage her, seeking fame through religion.
Henry Ondabu	Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 \| 03:36 AM I want to disagree with those who do not believe of The Blessed Virgin Mary appearing to the Kids of Fatima. First its wrong to discredit the event basing your argument purely on the fact that the children could have been commanded to say so when it was confirmed and witnessed by tens of thousands of people. What you need is faith and prayer so you can realize that it is not a hoax and no matter what it will remain that.
Ghyslaine ROC	Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 \| 03:44 PM Dear you all Faith is something I do not discuss unless solicited. I was educated by the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church which never professed Christianity although Rome claimed Catholicism to be Christian. The last
Toti Member	Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 \| 12:44 PM The apparition of The Virgin of Fatima is so beautiful, because it
John Wise	Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 \| 05:19 PM If we subscribe to the views of Sitchin, we can easily understand the virgin birth of the Messiah as artificial insemination. The issue with "Mary" is rather complicated. First, scriptures do not mention her ascension so we must assume that she suffered a mortal death as all but two others (Enoch and Elijah, the savior, though he ascended into heaven, did die upon the torture stake [not cross as commonly believed]). Secondly, this Mary accepts prayer directed to her. Scripture makes it very clear that Yahweh prohibits worship of strange (other) gods (mighty ones). Indeed, Satan seeks to usurp the Holy One and lusts after the glory and adulation that properly belongs to the Almighty. This appears ,to me, to be a clear indicator that this supposed apparition is none other than the great deceiver. Ysrael Hawkins, of The House of Yahweh, informs us that the correct interpretation of divine scripture points toward Satan as female, possibly relating to Irnani(Ashteroth). Lastly, we as believers in the divine word must accept the completeness of revelation as stated by the Apostle Shaul(Paul) that,"If any man preach another 'christ'(annointed one) than the one we preached or if any man preach another gospel unto you than the one we preached, such a man is ACCURSED." The conclusion is obvious!
John Wise	Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 \| 05:31 PM Let me add one other very important point. Satan has tremendous power to work wondrous miracles, from control of the elements to intervention in worldly affairs, and is therefore quite capable of the events which transpired at Fatima! Do not be deceived, There is none other! Yahweh is the Heavenly authority and Yashua is his son! Even as Moses (the law) led the Israelites to the promised land,his failings forbade him entry. It was Joshua (Yashua) who led them across the river Jordan (symbolic of death)into the promised land! Yashua himself did not accept prayer but taught as to pray thusly,"Our Father which art in Heaven..."
Mary	Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 \| 02:08 AM Please spare me the references to the scriptures that condemn women as messengers of Satan. Any credibility your argument might have had has been completely lost after that statement. It's amazing how some men are so threatened by women that they demonize them. Especially since men have historically been the destroyers and women the peacemakers. It would be laughable if it wasn't so disturbing that civilized people actually think this way. First of all, I assume that by praying to Mary you mean the rosary. If you have ever done a rosary, you would know that the Lord's Prayer is an integral part of it. The meditations that go with it focus on Jesus and Christian beliefs they are not solely "Mary-centric." Secondly, we are not saying that Mary was a god or in any way equal to God. Throughout history God has used beings as messengers on earth. Among them Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Elijah. We are not breaking the rules of God or Yahweh to believe that the higher power could use a woman as a messenger. What is so incredibly infuriating is the resistance to her message of peace and love - which you call Satanic - due to the fact that she was female. Ironically, there have been other scriptures written by women that have been found but thrown aside as heresy because of fear from "holy men" that a female couldn't possibly speak the word of God. In the shape the world is in today - a world ruled by men and filled with evil and hate - we should not be so quick to condemn a maternal presence.
Dude	Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 \| 12:24 PM All I can say about this lets just look at the facts. A ton of people gathered in a place and witnessed a supposed "supernatural" event. Now I have read many attempted scientific explanations about it. One saying that a cloud of stratospheric dust changed the appearance of the sun.(Steuart Campbell, Journal of Meteorology) Or starring at the sun for prolonged periods of time can make you see different colors.(Professor Auguste Meessen, Institute of Physics, University of Leuven). And of course the illiterate people's favorite that I'vd read in forums, "someone made some kind of airborne LSD and made everyone trip into some kind of mass hallucination." With these views in mind, we can come to three conclusions. 1. It was a miracle from a divine creator that we cannot explain, or.... 2. 3 kids decided to play an elaborate prank, willing to go through months of torment and scorn from people. Getting so lucky that the day they happen decide to play out the joke and trick 70,000 people just happens to on a day and time that the rain would stop and this "strange natural phenomenon" was destined to occur and leading up to this controversial discussion that we are having right now. 3. Someone had some extra money to spend so they decided to pay thousands of people and the news media to collectively act as if they've witnessed a miracle. That this whole event never actually happened and all the pictures and the whole crowd was just a huge staged event. which one makes the most sense? You be the judge.
Anonymous	Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 \| 06:46 PM I've been hearing all of these "Mary" apparitions, and this is not compatible with what the Bible says. The Bible clearly states that the rosary, "Mother of God" and many other things associated with these Marian apparitions are pagan. But what makes things get really complicated is an alternate view of these events that I found. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/theway/TheWay00.htm#menu While lots of her claims are just speculation, skip to the "Messiah Projects" section and see all of the connections that are made there. I honestly have no idea what to think at the moment, because all of this has left me rather confused. I need some people with a lot of knowledge of religion to go through this and help me out with it, and tell me if her claims stand up. I know some of them don't, because it causes some contradictions, but others seem pretty right. There also might be a problem with the way she crosses religions, but that is where I need the help of some well researched religious people. These apparitions certainly don't fit our Biblical, or any other Abrahamic faith's views. I haven't heard much of this before, and I seriously need some people to spread this around and debate it, because I have no idea what to believe now, and I can't seem to find anyone to discuss this with. I'm pretty sure her claims trying to connect Islam are incompatible though, judging by direct quotations from Muhammad, but the rest is still worth looking at. I also would like to contact the creator of this site, but apparently this is archived from a site back in the 90s, and the email address given is inactive.
Anonymous	Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 \| 12:14 AM Meh, please ignore that link I posted above. A lot of spotty research and she jumps to conclusions way too much. You would be better off not reading it because it seems deceptive with how it states "facts".
tmrk	Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 \| 01:05 AM Some people say that the Vision and Apparition of Mary happens only to Christians but that is not true. In many places it happens to other religion people. Here is one link http://www.panimatha.com This link is about Our Lady of Snows Kallikulam (India). Here other religion people got vision of Mary and got converted into christianity.
Anonyous	Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 \| 02:46 AM The the same anonymous that posted the above link here to state again to please ignore that link. I don't want anyone to read through it and possibly be fooled by it. I did a bunch of research and pretty much every claim on there is completely false, no matter how much proof she makes it look like she has. Don't waste your time on it. That is all.
Anonymous	Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 \| 02:53 AM A response to the post left by "Mary". No, what people saw was NOT unanimous. A lot of people saw "something", of which they couldn't agree on. Some said they didn't even see it at all. Only some people claimed that the rain dried. I'm not saying that nothing happened. A miracle doesn't have to appear the same to everyone, I am just saying that tt was not unanimous.

Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.