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Man Commits Suicide by Supergluing Mouth Shut
Posted By:
~*sShimmeRr*~
in Adelaide, Australia
Jun 17, 2005
 This one takes the cake! At first i thought it was a joke, but this fella really went out the uneasy way! Check it out:

"A young Thai man said to be suffering from stress killed himself by sealing his mouth and nose with super glue, police said Thursday.

The body of Komkrit Choochan, 20, was found Thursday morning in his bedroom in downtown Bangkok, police Lt. Col. Mongkol Nanthajit said. He said the victim, thought to have suffocated overnight, had his mouth and nose sealed with super glue, which prevented him from breathing.

It was believed to be the first suicide of its kind in Thailand.

Komkrit's family told police he had a history of moodiness. They said he argued with his elder sister on Wednesday over money she borrowed from him and failed to return, after which he went into the bedroom where his body was found 10 hours later.

A note saying "Here is all that I have, take what you please," was found on the dead man's bed along with 1,000 baht (US$24.42, €20.22 ) in cash, Mongkol said."
Category: Death; Replies: 67

Comments
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bobo
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 | 05:02 PM
Smerk, did you read the page? Morruna would black out before the acetone started working.
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 | 07:32 PM
The problem here is that the news articles weren't very specific. "Superglue" is such a generic term. It could have been dozens of materials, from cyanoacrylate glue to something that the guy made by boiling down fish and old tires.
Sharruma is correct about cyanoacrylate glue, though: it is toxic. That's why they have all the warning labels on it saying not to use it in a ventilated area and not to sniff the fumes. The ways it is used in emergency rooms is different from the way that this guy may have used it. In hospitals it is used externally, to hold together skin. The Thai man actually stuck it in his nose, which means that he would be inhaling it.
Sharruma and Maegan were also correct in noting that saliva would interfere with the superglue. Even though it is used medically, it's not used internally or inside the mouth for that reason. It is used on the skin's surface after the blood and whatever has been wiped away. The man in Thailand may have spread whatever stuff he used on the outside of his lips and pressed them together, though, which may work. It would still have to be very strongly-bonding and fast-setting, though, because before too long he would have passed out (especially if he was sitting there inhaling the fumes), and then his body would have tried to force his mouth open to breathe.
Smerk
in to mischief
 Member
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 | 07:43 PM
bobo - yes, I did read the page. Did you?

Acci - my thoughts exactly!
bobo
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 12:45 AM
1) Cyanoacrylate IS NOT TOXIC. The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They immediately are polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. They do not penetrate into human internal systems.

2) CA works just fine internally. Cyanoacrylates have been successful in grafting skin, bone and cartilage; repairing eyes; closing dangerously ballooned blood vessels in the abdomen; and stopping spinal fluid leaks.

3) Accipiter and Smerk, you people are morons, and I am a Ph.D.
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 01:20 AM
Cyanoacrylates are synthesized by heating a formaldehyde/alkyl cyanoacetate mixture. They can thus break down into formaldehyde and alkyl cyanoacetate. Now, formaldehyde is what is used by decontamination teams to kill off every single living thing (including viruses) in a room. But you're saying that cyanoacrylates aren't toxic?

I repeat, cyanoacrylate glues don't work well when mixed with saliva.

And what has your being a Ph. D. have to do with anything? For all I know, you could have a doctorate in aerobic training.
Hitchiker
in Australian (Living in China)
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 02:48 AM

Cyanoacrylates are one-part, room-temperature curing adhesives that are available in viscosities ranging from water-thin liquids to thixotropic gels. When confined in a thin film between two surfaces Cyanoacrylates undergo anionic polymerisation in the presence of a weak base, such as water, and are stabilised through the addition of a weak acid. When the adhesive contacts a surface, trace amounts of water of other species present on the surface neutralise the acidic stabiliser in the adhesive, resulting in the rapid polymerisation of the cyanoacrylate
Cyanoacrylates develop approximately 80% of their utimate tensile strength by the time they fixture (generally <3 secs.) I am an adhesives specialist. Cyanoacrylates are non toxic, some are used to replace sutures.
Bobo
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 11:28 AM
Accipiter gets an F in high school chemistry. "Cyanoacrylates are synthesized by heating a formaldehyde/alkyl cyanoacetate mixture, and can thus break down into formaldehyde and alkyl cyanoacetate (and is therefore poisonous.)" That's like saying "Water is made of hydrogen and oxygen, and can thus break down into hydrogen and oxygen, and is therefore flammable." Accipiter, the FDA has determined that CA is not toxic. Your pathetic understanding of science will not change that. And as I said before, my doctoral dissertation was on polymers.
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 12:36 PM
Um, could you please calm down?
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 12:36 PM
I don't think the breakdown of superglue is totally common knowledge. Give 'em a break.
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 03:57 PM
Bobo, for one who goes around handing out grades in chemistry, you're not doing too well yourself. There is a bit of a difference between a water molecule breaking down into hydrogen and oxygen atoms, and cyanoacrylates breaking down into formaldehyde and cyanoacetate. When hydrogen and oxygen combine to create water, it's an exothermic reaction, meaning that it gives off energy. This means that it can happen spontaneously, without the need for energy to be added. It also means that energy is needed to break water apart. Water left to itself will not break down (unless you want to get into things like proton decay and whatnot). When combining formaldehyde and cyanoacetate, heat is applied. This produces a monomer by an endothermic reaction, which does not occur spontaneously because it requires the addition of energy. It can, however, break down easily. The cyanoacrylate polymer degrades by hydrolytic reaction into oligomers, releasing formaldehyde. As previously stated, formaldehyde is toxic. By modifying the alkoxycarbonyl you can increase the stability and reduce the toxicity of the product of the cyanoacrylate's polymerization reaction by creating longer chained polymers (or such was the theory when last I heard it), but they will still release some formaldehyde.

Incidentally, water can be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen and used to cause combustion. Like I said, though, it requires energy input.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 03:59 PM
Yeah, what Acci said.

*hrumph*
Bobo
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 06:44 PM
If you google the terms "cyanoacrylate" and "toxic" you will find that it's NON-toxic. I don't know why Accipiter continues to insist that the pathetically small amount of formaldehyde released is poisonous. The entire scientific community disagrees with him.
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
 Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 07:10 PM
God almighty.
I thought I was bad, but you obsessive glue geeks take the cake.
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 08:34 PM
Why do I insist that the formaldehyde is poisonous? Because it is. Is the formaldehyde produced by cyanoacrylate glue poisonous enough to kill a person? Only if that person is using superglue by the gallon. Is it enough to cause damage to tissues? Yes it is, even in small amounts. And if you look on Google, you will find plenty of sites that agree with me.

For example, according to the FDA (which Bobo himself seems to consider a valid source):
The hydrolytic degradation of polymers (e.g., cyanoacrylate polymers) to smaller oligomers involves a hydrolysis reaction and release of formaldehyde. Formaldehyde as a by-product of cyanoacrylate hydrolytic degradation and the resultant cytotoxic or histotoxic effects have been reported and documented in research and medical journals.

and:
Hydrolytic degradation of polymers (e.g., cyanoacrylate polymers) to smaller oligomers involves a hydrolysis reaction. Release of formaldehyde as a by-product of cyanoacrylate hydrolytic degradation and the resultant cytotoxic or histotoxic effects have been reported and documented in research and medical journals. Specifically, the degradation products of cyanoacrylate adhesives could accumulate in tissues and lead to significant histotoxicity characterized by both acute and chronic inflammation. The literature shows that the rate of formation of the formaldehyde decreases with increase in the length of alkyl groups and the molecular weight of the cyanoacrylate polymers.

and:
FDA believes that cyanoacrylate topical tissue adhesives addressed by this guidance document are significant risk devices

Also, according to eMedicine:
The shorter-chain derivatives tend to have a higher degree of tissue toxicity than the longer-chain derivatives do.

and:
Inflammation, tissue necrosis, granulation formation, and wound breakdown can occur when cyanoacrylates are implanted subcutaneously.

and:
The histologic toxicity is thought to be related to the by-products of degradation, cyanoacetate and formaldehyde.

From the Miracle Glue website:
Although not labeled as such, over-the-counter Super Glue products contain methyl alcohol. . .which was studied extensively for its potential medical applications and was rejected due to its potential tissue toxicity such as inflammation or local foreign body reactions. Methyl alcohol has a short molecular chain which contributes to these complications.
Cinderella's Anus
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 09:47 PM
And if you drink three gallons of water, you'll get hyponatremia and die. So, water is toxic. Your argument is ridiculous.
bobo
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 | 11:05 PM
Cinderella's anus is correct. Accipiter, by your definition of 'toxic', absolutely EVERYTHING ON THE PLANET is toxic. Too much of anything will kill you, and even in little bits, free radicals from anything we eat damage cells. Stupid, stupid argument. Again, I encourage anyone to google "cyanoacrylate" and "toxic" and check out how NON-TOXIC it is (and the Miracle Glue people are full of crap, they're just trying to sell you different glue.)
Taranchoola
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 | 01:07 AM
yeah, shut up accipiter and let the kid glue his mouth shut, I'll throw in $20 too.
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 | 06:29 AM
I've had 3 gallons of water, and I didn't get sick. But I wasn't swallowing glue at the same time...so maybe it doesn't count.
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 | 02:59 PM
If you drink gallons of water, you might get sick. And if you drink 7 milliliters of Chloramine-T, you'll likely die within minutes. So what? We're not discussing those. We're talking about the forms of cyanoacrylates that are found in cheap superglue, the cyanoacrylates that form polymers containing short chains of alkyl ester groups, the ones that break down and release formaldehyde.

Where are you getting the idea that in order for something to be toxic, it has to cause death? For something to be toxic, it can cause death, or it can cause damage, or it can simply impair an organism. Yes, anything on Earth can be considered toxic if you don't qualify your definition of toxicity by giving a dosage limit. So let's give a dosage limit. Let's make the limit. . .5 mg/kg to cause death. So, is water toxic now? No. Is tapioca? Not unless you have some strong allergies to it. Are the most poisonous snakes in the world, the members of the family Hydrophidae, toxic? No, even they don't fit this strict definition. Nor does arsenic. But formaldehyde does. Formaldehyde is classed in the same level of toxicity as cyanide, strychnine, and phosgene. Are you going to argue that those poisons aren't toxic?

As I said, it would take gallons of superglue to release enough formaldehyde to cause death. It does not take much, however, to release enough to cause damage. It is not just me saying that, either. The FDA, which Bobo previously used as a source and thus apparently considers to be a legitimate authority, agrees with me. The JAMA has published articles that agree with me. The makers of superglue agree with me. Web-based medical sites agree with me. I'm not simply making unfounded claims.

If you're arguing otherwise, then you're arguing against one or both of two long-established facts: you're either saying that cyanoacrylates such as methyl cyanoacrylates don't hydrolyse into formaldehyde (something that we've known about since the 1950's or 60's, at the latest), or else that formaldehyde isn't toxic (refer to the definition of toxicity given above). If you can provide any evidence supporting your argument against either of those facts, then do so. Otherwise, you're simply disagreeing without any basis. And throwing insults around neither proves your case nor leads anybody take a high opinion of your level of maturity.

PS: I Googled "cyanoacrylate" and "toxic", like Bobo said to. The results did not support his claims. Most of the links displayed on the first page mention toxic cyanoacrylates. Furthermore, if you Google a form of acrylate that forms short alkyl ester groups, such as "methyl", "acrylate", and "toxic", you find an even greater number.
Doogifer
Member
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 | 08:37 PM
Accipiter, shut up. Just shut up. Superglue is not toxic. If it was, manufacturers would force them to put a warning label on it that sez TOXIC. And I'm holding a package. No TOXIC label. Oh, I suppose YOU know something the federal government doesn't? And I suppose that if you keep babbling you're going to convince them? Just shut up. Shut up. SHUT UP.
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