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Our life itself is the biggest lie
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Posted By:
leo777
Apr 23, 2005
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The fact is that we all live a lie.According to where we come from.
I was born in Russia during the Cold War.
And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name Igor
Sikorsky invented the helicopter.And the names of Wassily Kandinsky(famous
artist)and igor Stravinsky(famous composer)never were mentioned in Russian
education system and many others because of political reasons.They left to
the West and were considered as a traitors to Communist Russia.
So what are we tought in schools is a reflection of what our govervents and
cultures believe in.
THE WHOLE HISTORY OF THE WORLD IS THE BIGGEST HOAX OF THEM ALL.
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Comments
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Page 3 of 10 pages < 1 2 3 4 5 > Last › |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 02:49 AM
To Smerk.
Just a blackade of Russian city of Leningrad claimed 500.000 civilian lives and as many soldiers.
Have you heard about general Patton who propossed the idea for final confrontation in 1945.The winner takes all.
Officially the Cold War started in 1947 when Russians got the ability to built their own nucliar bomb. |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:07 AM
TO SMERK
READ THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE. I WAS BORN AND BROUGHT UP IN COMMUNIST RUSSIA.ENGLISH IS MY SECOND LANGUAGE.I LIVE IN THE USA. |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:16 AM
Okay, you missed the point of my throw away question about how many civvies the Germans killed. The point I was trying to make is the millions of jews killed by various means at the whim of Hitler. And that was pre-meditated. Over a long period of time. The US attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaka were two short strikes intended to bring the Japanese to their knees.
And thanks for shouting. I did read the original message. However, you did not state where you were educated or where you are currently living. All you said was that you were born in Russia and various things you were not taught in school (which funnily enough, I wasn't either - perhaps it wasn't relevant to my education?) And I'm not in a habit of assuming peoples current locales or language capabilities. |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:17 AM
To SMERK and RAZELA.
How many languages do you speak to redicule the others.How about "I says". |
Sharruma
in capable of finishing a coherent
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:22 AM
I put my last statement badly
I knew 1812 was important for some reason, because of the symphony.
I knew also that napoleon was around at that time because of waterloo in 1815.
I knew or I should have known what had happened in 1812 at the time I asked but I couldn't think what it was.
I had even wondered if it might have been the battle of trafalgar for a moment, but remembered that that was 1805.
Napoleon's retreat from moscow was one of the key moments of the napoleonic wars. It may well have been the turning point of his initial success. But it's not something I've actually heard or thought about since I left school more than 20 years ago.
What I wastaught tended to be the peninsula war and specifically waterloo. Russia was touched on but only because it was so important to Nappy's eventual downfall. |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:27 AM
I don't ridicule anyone. Well, anyone I don't know to well. And I don't see what my linguistic capabilities have to do with anything? |
Leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:34 AM
To smerk
You know what I just re-red my message.It clearly says that I was tought in Russia.It's no excuse for you to redicule other people,especially on the Internet,because it's an international community.I have a well ejucated friend from Ireland and all his e-mails full of mistypes.
You made up your mind and made up mine on a subject.That is the whole point of a debate.
Good luck. |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:44 AM
Still re-read it. It still doesn't state definitively that you were educated in Russia. You said that you were not taught about a few key Russian people, and then in a separate sentence you mentioned a few other key Russians and stated that it was a deficiency of the Russian education system. That's the same as me saying I didn't learn anything about Ned Kelly. And then saying that things like Waco and the Stolen Generation are never taught in the Australian School system. The two sentences are only related by the fact that Australian (or in your case, Russian) subjects are mentioned. I didn't state whether I was actually educated in Australia.
And I never actually said anything about your education being the reason for your spelling errors. I wondered whether it was due to a language barrier - ie, English is a second language, not the first.
As for the actual debate, I'm lost now! |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:55 AM
To smerk
Here it goes:
I was born in Russia during the Cold War.
And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name Igor......
Now I am lost.I need somebody's opinion.Doesn't it states that I was tought in Russia? |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 04:01 AM
To smerk.
Sorry for "states" instead of "state".
Usually people don't pay any atention to that.I belong to other forums.You have to read messages from those forums.And they from English speaking countries. |
Leo 777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 04:21 AM
To smerk.
Don't wanna through a cheap shot,but since got one thrown at me(myself):
Not knowing people that I mentioned in my original message says a lot about you.
Warning doesn't mean beware.
But "Beware" is a warning.That was my point. |
LaMa
in Europe
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 06:26 AM
Going back to the discussion about the US, start of the cold war and Hiroshima;
I feel it was a combination of all things mentioned. The cold war definitely started before 1947, and during WWII, at the Jalta conference etc. The big powers (England, US, Russia) already were dividing up Europe on the map, drawing out new influence spheres. There had been irritation from the Russian side that their request for a second front was not met by the western allies before D-Day. And one reason for the failed British/US attempt to make a quick jump to Germany through operation Market Garden (the failed capture of the Rhine bridges at Arnhem) was an attempt to capture Germany before the Russians would do.
Concerning the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, yes, it was done to end the war quickly and because of a fear of immense losses when it would be fought the traditional way. It also gave the Japanese an opportunnity to end the war and go for defeat and surrender with some grace. But at the same time, it certainly also was a show off to Russia.
Especially Churchill has never made a secret of it, that much of the war politics from 1943-44 onwards was governed by concerns about influence spheres in post-war Europe and Asia.
And all sides did this. For example, Russia just halted and stood in wait at the edge of Warsaw, untill the Germans had killed the last of the freedom-minded, non-communist partizans there. Only then they went in and captured it. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 07:06 AM
Wow. Thank you Razela, I was indeed citing examples of common thought in the States and not my own beliefs.
I'll give Leo the cold war one. The roots for it definately started much earlier during the Russian Revolution. Everyone in the West was afraid of the "Bolsheviks". Plus, they didn't trust Russia after Lenin came to power and bowed out of WWI. Throughout all the years between the wars the western world was extremely untrusting and leary of the new Soviet Union. The non-aggression pact Stalin signed with Hitler only made matters worse. When war finally did come to Russia they only became an ally of convenience. There was never any love lost between any of the allies during the war.
As for bombing Japan, only in historian circles do es anybody really bemoan the bombing of Dresden, Germany. While reliable numbers are hard to come by, the total number of dead could very well exceed that of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki so don't whine about poor Japan. There are no "innocent cities" in a country at war and there is NO honor in warfare, so get that sick and twisted thought out of your mind. War is slaughter and destruction, putting an "honorable" label on it deminishes the prices people pay. And Japan's suffering was a pittance compared to EurAsia. Yes the bombing was a warning to communists. Everything America did was a warning. But it also ended the war, a war that Japan started. And there were comparitively few American losses in bombing Japan (yes, I'm well aware of the tragedy of the USS Indianapolis). Even if the cost in Japanese civilians were 10 times higher it would be hard to condem the act because of this fact. I'm also aware that Japan was seriously considering surrendering before the attacks but "good intentions" don't account for much during times of war. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 10:22 AM
Leo, you just showed us that you yourself didn't say you were EDUCATED IN Russia.
You're actual quote:
"I was born in Russia during the Cold War.
And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name Igor
Sikorsky invented the helicopter."
I'm not sure how long you've been in the U.S., but here the term "they" tends to be ANY entity or person, you are unfamiliar with. "They" are the government, the military, whomever you want them to be. Most Conspiracy Theorists refer to they as responsible for all wars, disease, laws, you name it, they are responsible for it.
Personally, I assumed that you were taught in the U.S., b/c why wouldn't Russia teach about Russians?
Just be a little more specific when you use the term "they". |
Razela
in Chicago, IL
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 10:33 AM
Leo, I'm sorry if you feel hurt, but I was never making fun of you or your language skills. I was commenting on something steven said and being nitpicky because I knew he wouldn't mind. Most of that comes from the fact that I live with an English major who is correcting my English all of the time. And by the way, Ani medabaret shne tzafot, aval rok achat tov. |
Accipiter
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 11:05 AM
Leo, first off, you don't need to get so offended. These people weren't ridiculing you. They were debating with you. There is a difference. Your English is better than most Americans' Russki, and you have my admiration for that because I know from personal experience that English is a tricky language to learn. But your writing is still not entirely natural sounding and so can cause confusion. There were a few things you said that some people needed clarified. I also believe that, due to your not being entirely familiar with English idiomatics, you may have misunderstood the meaning of some of the previous posts and took them as personal attacks against you. They weren't.
Furthermore, when you started this debate, you stated that "what are we tought in schools is a reflection of what our governments and cultures believe in". You were raised and educated in the communist CCCP, and so you would have--as you have stated--learned the version of history that the communist government decided to let you learn. When America's involvement in WWII was brought up, you immediately started defending the viewpoints indoctrinated into you by the former CCCP: that America was sitting in the background waiting to join whichever side was winning, that America finally got involved mainly to stop communism's spread, and that the use of nuclear weapons on Japan was mainly a warning to the communists. All of these views cast America in the role of a villain, which was exactly the sort of perception of America that the CCCP would have wanted its citizens to have during the Cold War. So you do prove your original point about history being determined by the people in power. |
Katherine
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 11:18 AM
Oh my. Arguments, arguments! Don't want to get sucked in, but two things:
1. Citizen Premier, darlin, I'm sure you didn't intend any offense, but just fyi, "Jap" is not even remotely p.c. nowadays. You're among friends here, I hope, but it'll save you a lot of bother if you just type out "anese" at the end.
2. Winona said, "An American friend of mine & myself have had a long running argument about who won the war of 1812." In that context, I think it would be more natural than not for an American (or a Brit? Do they call the war that over there?) to think of the conflict between Britain and America rather than the Napoleonic Wars, simply because the British/American war is actually called "The War of 1812." Not because of ignorance that the Napoleonic Wars existed, but because the association of the name is so strong.
That's all, carry on! |
Sharruma
in capable of finishing a coherent
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 12:47 PM
Er Katherine, I'm a Brit living in the US and until today I've never heard of this war. |
LaMa
in Europe
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 12:58 PM
Yes, but then, I never met a single Brit who knew what Chatham refers to, and that was in Britain itself. Brits only teach their schoolkids their glorious victories, and those defeats that have a glorious aspect (e.g. Dunkurque); not those defeats where they were really humilliated to the bone. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 12:59 PM
My whole understanding of America's waiting to enter WWII is b/c it wasn't affecting us yet...People didn't want to send their sons off to die.
The reprocussions (sp?) of that is that now, we get involved in every war...whether we need to or not. |
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