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Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 | 08:37 PM
I know what you're saying, Kam. Yes, in most cases, it's probably true that no matter what I (or anyone else) says, a True Believer will continue to be a True Believer. There's always the chance, though, that I (or someone else) can reach a few people; it does happen occasionally.
I know of at least one person who used to argue with me on this forum about all sorts of supernatural bullshit who now says he is very critical of that kind of thing and who thanked me and others here for helping him change his mind.
Besides, debunking this kind of nonsense is just the right thing to do, don't you think? |
AN Observer
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 | 10:39 AM
If Syliva Browne is geniune then why does she charge 750 dollars for a 30 minute reading. Her talent she be free or a nominal fee. 750 dollars, there is something wrong with that picture! |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 | 04:09 AM
Well, I'd say that IF a person had abilities like Sylvia claims to have, they would be entitled to make a decent living using them to help others.
She's a fake, though, so if she charges a single dollar for her cold reading nonsense, then she's ripping people off.
(For the record, I should note here that I don't believe that ANYONE has the kind of powers Sylvia claims to have.) |
coocoo
in tx
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 | 03:16 PM
I have watched Montel when Sylivia is on and if you think about it shes on every wednesday and a lot of the time on Fridays.....this is a show that a lot of people tune into to see what she says = $$ When watching her give answers to people Montel will a lot of times interupt her when people look confused and have no idea what she is talking about so that he can take another question...Today Sylivia had a slip a young girl at the end of the show asked Sylvia if her parents were going to be around her, Syliva said you can feel them around you asuming that they were dead and then the girl says I mean are they going to get their papers to move to America and Montel quickly chimes in and begins talking about the security of america to try to cover what just happened....there is no way she can know everything about everyone always...and predictions that she makes about celeberties you can find in the tabs. |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 | 03:06 AM
coocoo said:
"Today Sylivia had a slip a young girl at the end of the show asked Sylvia if her parents were going to be around her, Syliva said you can feel them around you asuming that they were dead and then the girl says I mean are they going to get their papers to move to America and Montel quickly chimes in and begins talking about the security of america to try to cover what just happened....there is no way she can know everything about everyone always...and predictions that she makes about celeberties you can find in the tabs."
I didn't see the show you're referring to, but it sounds as if Sylvia assumed that the girl's parents were dead (since many of her clients want to know about deceased friends and family members) but in this case, she was completely off base.
OK, how could Sylvia "feel their spirits" if they aren't dead? Big oops, huh?
I have no idea if Montel Williams really believes in Sylvia's bullshit, but a show host doesn't usually want a guest to look stupid, so he jumped in to save her wrinkled old ass.
You are of course correct that much information about celebrities is available to the public, especially in an age of Google. |
Rachel
in Saskatchewan
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 | 12:27 PM
Okay so I totally think that Sylvia Browne is a great person. She lets people know how their loved ones are doing and they can go home at the end of the day more in peace than when they came |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 | 02:41 AM
Rachel said:
"Okay so I totally think that Sylvia Browne is a great person. She lets people know how their loved ones are doing and they can go home at the end of the day more in peace than when they came"
The trouble, Rachel, is that Sylvia claims to have supernatural powers; unfortunately, everything she does can be duplicated using tricks very well known and understood by magicians and others who follow this sort of thing. She doesn't do ANYTHING that can't be duplicated by a person who understands how her kind of act works.
You probably haven't read the rest of this thread. If you had, you would have seen where I explained how Sylvia has given IDENTICAL readings to at least two of her clients who did not know each other and who called her over a year apart. Do you really think that those people had IDENTICAL lives and problems? I don't.
I think that Sylvia has (or had) a script she read from to the callers. In other words, in my opinion, Sylvia is a fake, a fraud, a person who LIES to people in need of emotional support.
Imagine for a moment that I'm right. Do you STILL think that Sylvia Browne is a "great person?" What evidence do YOU have that supports the idea that she has "supernatural" powers? |
Iris
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 | 09:23 PM
Also adding to the post about Sylvia's slip up with that girl's supposed "dead" parents. On that very same show, this woman talked about how she lost her boyfriend and he was never found, and Sylvia said he won't ever be found because he's in water, in the ocean, and went on about how it was like the Natalee Holloway situation. Then the woman said he was a fireman and was killed on 9/11. Sylvia was like "Is there any way he could have drowned?" and was talking about water from the fireman's hose and a bunch of crap. Watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dU0Q208HKI |
Sir Carter!
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 | 11:01 AM
Yeah, she's a fraud alright. |
Shay
in CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 12:29 AM
I came upon this forum and read everything people were saying on here...there's so much hatred and anger. Why is everyone attacking Sylvia Browne? The way I see it, she's changed millions of people's lives. Who cares if what she says is true or not? What she does, helps people. If someone chooses to pay $700 to get a reading from her, that's their own personal choice. They reap the benefits or the consequences. But who are we to judge who she is and what she does? Even if she were a phony, she hasn't caused damage to anyone...she hasn't killed anyone...she hasn't caused suicides...or else we would of heard it on the news by now. She's actually done the very opposite for millions of people out there. She's restored faith in people, got people out of depression....she's done nothing but good...so who are we to judge her? I think we all have better things to do with our lives than sit here and bash someone we don't even personally know. |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 02:26 AM
I'm fascinated by your attitude, Shay. Do you REALLY want to go on record as saying that you don't care if Sylvia Browne makes a living by lying to desperate people? Really?
If you've seen her, or any other "psychic" for that matter, on TV, you know that she purports to assist people with serious personal problems, including missing loved ones.
OK, honestly now, on NO level does it bother you if, as I and many other people suspect, she is completely LYING about what she tells them?
"If someone chooses to pay $700 to get a reading from her, that's their own personal choice. "
Would they do that, do you think, if they knew that she was pulling her "psychic advice" out of her rather ample ass? Would you go to a doctor if you knew he was a quack?
"Even if she were a phony, she hasn't caused damage to anyone...she hasn't killed anyone...she hasn't caused suicides...or else we would of heard it on the news by now."
Oh really? How can you be sure of that? What if a person realized that the nonsense Sylvia told them about a loved one's death or whatever didn't pan out? First off, they would have wasted money they may not be able to afford in the first place.
Secondly, isn't it just possible that a person could take their own life when they realize that what they so desperately want to happen isn't going to happen? Why do you automatically assume that you would hear about something like that? People kill themselves every day and their deaths don't necessarily make the newspaper. In my local community, for example, a 70-something man committed suicide the other day and it did NOT make the local newspaper.
"She's actually done the very opposite for millions of people out there."
Sounds like an assumption to me. How do you "know" that?
"She's restored faith in people, got people out of depression....she's done nothing but good...so who are we to judge her?"
Again, how do you know any of that? As for "who are we to judge her?" the answer is that we are people who want to know the TRUTH about the world and universe in which we live. We want to know if the claims made by "psychics" are real or not. We are doing what human beings have done since we came out of the cave: seeking the truth about our existance. That's who we are.
"I think we all have better things to do with our lives than sit here and bash someone we don't even personally know."
In my opinion, she takes money by LYING to people who are desperate. At the very least, that is an incredibly immoral act. It may also be illegal. Honestly, that doesn't bother you at all? I'm amazed by that. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 12:38 PM
I was always taught that lying was wrong.
It seems that this isn't the case if you're lying in order to make money. Then it's perfectly acceptable as long as the people you're lying to don't know about it.
At least, that's what Shay seems to be telling us. |
Shay
in CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 02:31 PM
Give me a break ppl....there are millions of politicans...lawyers...etc...who lie every day. I'm sure everyone on this forum has lied more than a dozen times in this lifetime...Not to mention...I'm sure the president has lied many a times (but I won't go there)...
"I was taught that lying was wrong"...aren't we all? Doesn't mean you'll never do it. People are taught killing is wrong and stealing is wrong...yet look at our world today.
Can you prove Sylvia Browne is lying? Beacause there seems to be different opinions on both sides...both sides have evidence of her "readings" and "predictions" to be either true or false...and more so on the TRUE side.
And you know what? No I don't know if anyone ever harmed themselves from one of Sylvia Browne's "readings"..but neither do YOU and that is something we'll never prove...
Let me ask you something "Cranky Media Guy" Have you read any of Sylvia Browne's books? Watched her on TV? Better yet...wrote her a letter...you know she gives short readings for FREE if you write her with a specific question...I would imagine you haven't because if you had...you'd know how many people's lives she changed for the better.
"It seems that this isn't the case if you're lying in order to make money. Then it's perfectly acceptable as long as the people you're lying to don't know about it."
It's not about lying to make money....she has to make a living just like you and me...Don't give me the bullshit about "then why does she have to charge $700 for a reading?" well tell me...why is medical insurance so much? Doctors and nurses help people right? Why do Laywers charge so much? They help people right?? I went to the emergancy room once for a pain in my stomach...they couldn't find anything wrong...I spent the whole night filling out paperwork instead of being evaluated...they charged me $900! i didn't have medical insurance at the time. To me...that sounds like bullshit.
"Would they do that, do you think, if they knew that she was pulling her "psychic advice" out of her rather ample ass? Would you go to a doctor if you knew he was a quack?"
No I ovbiously wouldn't go to a doctor if I knew he was a quack..but obvisouly people who pay $700 dollars to get a reading from her don't think she's a quack...otherwise, they'd be pretty dumb to pay $700 not knowing what they're getting themselves into. Would you pay $700 dollars to see someone you knew would just lie to you? obvisouly not
Here are the facts..There's obviously a ton of believers in Sylvia Browne because look at how well she's done for herself for half a century now. If she really was a "PHONY" like you say...I'm sure she'd be out of business by now. So she must be doing something RIGHT all these years to have people coming to her again and again and also spreading the word to others..It would be pretty damn amazing if she's been lying for a half a century now...that would just mean that most people in this world are complete idiots and extremely gullable...which I guess is what Cranky Media is saying here...
he's saying that most people in the world are complete idiots and extremely gullable because Sylvia Browne has succeeded in fooling millions for half a century now and continues to write best selling books and have sold out shows. I guess we'll all know the real truth when we die, won't we? |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 04:12 PM
Shay, I'm sure you'll go far in this world with your moral flexibility. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 04:30 PM
Okay, I can't let it go with just that.
Shay, are you honestly telling me that defrauding your customers is acceptable? I'm hoping you're just spouting gibberish without comprehension, because otherwise you have no morals whatsoever.
By your logic we should have let Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling off because "Hey, politicians and lawyers do it ever day." After all, who cares that thousands of people lost their life savings and billions of dollars just evaporated? So they were lining their own pockets at the expense of their employees, customers, and stock holders. Other people do it, so it's alright.
As for Sylvia lying, that's been shown time and again. The problem is, we shouldn't have to prove she's lying, she should have to prove she's telling the truth. But she refuses to do so because she knows she can't. She has made, and broken, several promises to demonstrate her 'abilities' under controlled circumstances, but has yet to follow through. Since she refuses to follow through on her promises other people have had to go to the effort of proving her wrong, and they have. She's a fraud who's only interested in making money off of gullible, desperate people.
People want to be fooled. They want to believe that somebody has powers that can help them, because they're unable to help themselves. She's well aware of this and takes advantage of it.
Millions of people believed in the power of bloodletting, Shay. By your logic, they must have been right.
Sylvia has been proven wrong already, it's just that some people, like yourself, refuse to believe it because you can't accept the alternative. That you're responsible for your own life. |
Shay
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 06:31 PM
I think you misunderstood me when I said, "Give me a break ppl....there are millions of politicans...lawyers...etc...who lie every day. I'm sure everyone on this forum has lied more than a dozen times in this lifetime...Not to mention...I'm sure the president has lied many a times (but I won't go there)..." I'm not validating that what they do is right nor should be tolerated. I just don't think it's fair for you to call Sylvia out while not calling everyone else out there who lies while making money. Esp. when there has been many witnesses that say what she speaks IS the truth.
"Sylvia has been proven wrong already, it's just that some people, like yourself, refuse to believe it because you can't accept the alternative. That you're responsible for your own life."
We are responsible for our own lives and we do have choices and free-will...if you'd read any of Sylvia's books, she states that as well. In fact, she explains in detail how our life is in our own hands.
So let me ask you something...if someone was on their death bed, afraid to die...and someone was sitting there telling them how wonderful Heaven looks like and that they will die peacefully...you'd waltz up in there and say, "she's lying!!! She's a phony! And if you believe her...you have no morals whatsoever!" I tell ya, if I was the one on that death bed...I'd be pissed as hell. Who cares if what that person was saying to me wasn't true? It gave me hope and ease...it would have taken my fear of dying away. It's not your job to prove the world wrong...its your job to live your life. If people want to trust in Sylvia let them...let them reap the consequences or benefits. You don't believe in her, fine..no one is asking you to..so stay away from her and that's that.
Do you also negate and object to people's religions and what they believe in? Because no one has physical proof that what the bible says is true or even that there is a GOD..but there are millions of people out there that believe it and live a better life because of it.
This is what I believe, whatever tools you use to make yourself a more loving, caring, giving person...then more power to you! And from what I know about Sylvia Browne...she's helped millions out there for the better. So if people want to as you say, "believe that someone has powers that can help them" then so be it...as long as it makes them better people. And if that means that I have "NO MORALS" as you say I don't...then I appreciate your OPINION but I will continue to believe in what I believe in and continue to be the best person I can be |
Cranky Media Guy
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 07:48 PM
Shay said:
"Give me a break ppl....there are millions of politicans...lawyers...etc...who lie every day. I'm sure everyone on this forum has lied more than a dozen times in this lifetime...Not to mention...I'm sure the president has lied many a times (but I won't go there)..."
Where to begin? Well, basically, everything you say in that paragraph boils down to "two wrongs DO make a right." No one would disagree with you that other people besides Sylvia lie. And your point is...?
It's wrong for THEM to do it and it's wrong for SYLVIA to do it. Happy now? Sylvia makes her living by lying to people who have trauma in their lives and you condone that. I find myself wondering why.
"I was taught that lying was wrong"...aren't we all? Doesn't mean you'll never do it. People are taught killing is wrong and stealing is wrong...yet look at our world today."
Sylvia contributes to that. Why are you condoning it?
"Can you prove Sylvia Browne is lying? Beacause there seems to be different opinions on both sides...both sides have evidence of her "readings" and "predictions" to be either true or false...and more so on the TRUE side."
*sigh* It appears that yet again one of the skeptics on this board have to explain that BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE PERSON MAKING EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS, not the person who points out the extraordinary nature of them.
Shay, if you had read some of the earlier postings on this thread, you would have seen where I told how James Randi PROVED that Sylvia has given the exact same reading to at least two of her clients, who did not know each other, about a year apart. I guess to you, that means that those two people had identical lives, huh? Here's a MUCH simpler answer: Sylvia was working from a script, NOT using any of her alleged "psychic powers." See how much neater (and non-violative of physical laws) MY answer is? Or, as they say in The Bronx where I grew up, she pulls it out of her ass.
"And you know what? No I don't know if anyone ever harmed themselves from one of Sylvia Browne's "readings"..but neither do YOU and that is something we'll never prove..."
No, it's true that I do not currently know that Sylvia's advice has caused someone to harm or kill themselves, but how can you say that that is "something we'll never prove"? Who knows what may come out down the road? In any case, since she tells grieving people bullshit stories, she certainly has the potential to harm people--and she does it for a living. Disgusting.
"Let me ask you something "Cranky Media Guy" Have you read any of Sylvia Browne's books? Watched her on TV? Better yet...wrote her a letter...you know she gives short readings for FREE if you write her with a specific question...I would imagine you haven't because if you had...you'd know how many people's lives she changed for the better."
Well, you may imagine that, but you'd be wrong. I have seen her on Montel Williams' show. I also paid for one of her pay-per-view shows so that I could see her in action. What I saw was pretty much what I expected; I also saw her come pretty damn close to practicing medicine without a license, in my opinion. She told people specific medicines they should take. Look me in the eye and tell me that THAT doesn't have a very real potential to harm people--or do you think that dead people are telling Sylvia what medicines her "clients" should take?
As for writing Sylvia a letter, why in Hell would I do THAT? She's a friggin' fraud.
"No I ovbiously wouldn't go to a doctor if I knew he was a quack..but obvisouly people who pay $700 dollars to get a reading from her don't think she's a quack...otherwise, they'd be pretty dumb to pay $700 not knowing what they're getting themselves into."
Exactly. That's my point--they don't KNOW that she's a phony. That's what we're trying to educate people about in this thread. |
Shay
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 10:30 PM
Has anyone here heard of Brian L. Weiss? If not, he's a famous hypnotherapist who actually started off as a trained Physician and professor of Psychiatry. He received his undergraduate degree from Columbia University and his medical degree from Yale, where he was also a chief resident in psychiatry. When he started off, he was a complete skeptic of anything unscientific, such as parapsychology. His belief changed one day when he put his patient under hypnotherapy for healing. She started recalling a past life and at first he didn't believe what he was hearing. Then out of nowhere, she said she had a message for him from the other side. It was about his deceased son and then she gave significant details to his life. A complete stranger who knew nothing about Dr. Weiss was telling him private details of his life. This woman was not psychic in any way, by the way. Since then he became a believer and uses past life regression therapy on most of his patients who have been healed and cured beyond belief. I have read all of his books and in his books he tells of many findings about the "other side" in which his patients have re-iterated to him through hypnotherapy. He started meditating and soon months to years after meditating...he started getting messages personally from the other side. Many of the findings he describes in his books are very similar to what Sylvia Browne explains. If you've read any of Sylvia Browne's books, you'd read all about how she is able to give you information about your life. That would be because she looks into your chart that you personally create for yourself before you even arrive on earth. Brian L Weiss...along with many many of his patients have described the same exact chart that Sylvia talks about.
Brian L Weiss is not a psychic at all, but a well respected Doctor. Don't you find it oddly intriguing that two very different people with different backgrounds and lifestyles, have basically the same understanding as far as the paranormal and the "other side"?
Please, someone tell me if she is such a phony, then why has she been doing do well for over half a century? Why are her books best sellers and why are her shows constantly sold out? If she were such a phony then why hasn't her shit hit the fan? Obviously she's doing something right and something good for people to be coming back to her. I know the world is not filled with complete idiots.
Cranky Media Said
"I also saw her come pretty damn close to practicing medicine without a license, in my opinion. She told people specific medicines they should take. Look me in the eye and tell me that THAT doesn't have a very real potential to harm people--or do you think that dead people are telling Sylvia what medicines her "clients" should take?"
I watch the montel williams show and if anything, she tells the person to go see a doctor or to have the doctor check their stomach or their spinal cord etc. Whenever she diagnosis's something, she always tells them to go see a doctor or to have the doctor take a look at a certain area on their body. She never says, "oh yes...you have so so disease and you should take so so medication and you'll be fine..." No...she always tells them to see a doctor. She states in her books that she obvioulsy isn't a licensed doctor and that everything she says when it comes to medical terminology should be validated from a doctor.
Cranky media guy, you said:
"As for writing Sylvia a letter, why in Hell would I do THAT? She's a friggin' fraud."
So you'd PAY to see her live in action on TV, but you wouldn't write her for a measly $0.39 to see what she had to say personally to you? That makes a lot of sense. If I were the one attacking Sylvia Browne, I'd want to investigate every aspect, every angle, to get more ammo on her...to me, writing her a letter and seeing what she had to say along with any "predictions" she had for me, would be even more convincing than watching a Pay per view program |
Shay
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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 | 10:31 PM
Anyway, this debate really has been fun. But we obviously aren't going to get anywhere going back and forth like this. My beliefs still stand strong, as do yours. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. =) |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 | 01:14 AM
Shay said:
"Please, someone tell me if she is such a phony, then why has she been doing do well for over half a century? Why are her books best sellers and why are her shows constantly sold out? If she were such a phony then why hasn't her shit hit the fan? Obviously she's doing something right and something good for people to be coming back to her. I know the world is not filled with complete idiots."
OK, first off, Sylvia Browne has not been prominent for "over half a century." That simply isn't true.
"Why are her books best sellers and why are her shows constantly sold out?"
Um, what does popularity have to do with accuracy? Using your logic, the most popular show on television must be the BEST show. Lots of B.S. books have been best-sellers. Many shows that I might consider absolute crap have been popular. So what?
Do you honestly believe that Sylvia's popularity is PROOF that there is life after death?
I would also point out to you that "popularity" is relative. While Sylvia makes a good living bullshitting people, she is probably a non-entity to a majority of the public. Consider: Bill O'Reilly's TV show is the most popular of all the shows on the cable news networks. His audience averages about 2 million people a night. There are 300 million people in America. Most of them have NEVER seen his show. His popularity is relative to the other, lesser-watched cable news shows. Same principle applies to Sylvia. Many people know who she is, but by no means MOST people.
"Whenever she diagnosis's something, she always tells them to go see a doctor or to have the doctor take a look at a certain area on their body. She never says, "oh yes...you have so so disease and you should take so so medication and you'll be fine...""
Not true. I have seen her "prescribe" specific medications for people. She absolutely did that on the pay-per-view I watched and I believe she's also done that on Montel.
"So you'd PAY to see her live in action on TV, but you wouldn't write her for a measly $0.39 to see what she had to say personally to you? That makes a lot of sense. If I were the one attacking Sylvia Browne, I'd want to investigate every aspect, every angle, to get more ammo on her...to me, writing her a letter and seeing what she had to say along with any "predictions" she had for me, would be even more convincing than watching a Pay per view program"
I have nothing "personal" to say to Sylvia, other than, "Why do you lie to people?" As for knowing more about her, I seem to know more about her and her modus operandi than YOU do. I know, for example, as I've mentioned before, that she's used the exact same "reading" for more than one person. By the way, I notice that you've avoided addressing that. Got an explanation for it?
"Brian L Weiss is not a psychic at all, but a well respected Doctor. Don't you find it oddly intriguing that two very different people with different backgrounds and lifestyles, have basically the same understanding as far as the paranormal and the "other side"?"
Actually, no, I dont' find that "oddly intriguing" at all. I was raised as a Catholic, going to Catholic schools for 12 years. "Oddly enough," I knew MANY people, from different backgrounds who had "basically the same understanding about the 'other side'." Do you find something remarkable about that? |
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