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Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 | 08:52 PM
wow... wish I had posted that topic... So the story about Saddam's Hole Stinks, eh? sorry, Alex, I just had to |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 | 09:09 PM
If this story proves to be true, it's just one more bit of evidence that our current government rules by hoax and fraud. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 | 11:15 PM
Current Government??
Surely you mean all governments |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 04:43 AM
Sharruma said:
"Current Government??
Surely you mean all governments"
Well, I assume that pretty much every government lies, but our current one seems to have adopted deception as a sport. |
dog
in VA
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 08:42 AM
Using a little critical thinking, it seems to me that the easier story to fake is the new version, not the original. |
JoeSixpack
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 09:08 AM
Frankly, I can't see the reason for faking the capture. The Army/US/current-administration would recieve no added propaganda benifit from one story over the other.
Secondly, there isn't much corraboration for this story. It's carried by Rev. Moons news agency, and it's just a report of what another news source is reporting about what one person is saying. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 10:00 AM
I have come to realize that every thing the Government tells us is usually loosly based on a true story. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 11:09 AM
I'm with Joe. No one has corraborated, and the information could easily be faked.
Only the soldier telling the story gains anything. (15 minutes of fame!) |
Alex
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 11:14 AM
Either way, he's caught. And since he's still alive and could presumably tell his side of the story during a trial, there would have been no point in making up fake details about his capture. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 03:34 PM
Good point, Alex. But I haven't heard many statements from Saddam, and I suspect they're tightly controlled, 'to prevent communication with terror cells,' they might say.
As for propaganda value, what looks better than forcing an ex-leader of the country you've conquered hide like a rat in a hole? Not that most leaders wouldn't demean themselves to save their own lives, but still it looks good when reported on.
But regardless of whether it's right or not, the fact remains that this story seems more plausable to the public, because more and more people don't trust it anymore. Remember the footage of the tank pulling down the Saddam statue? That was staged with about 200 Iraqis. Things like this make a lot of us lose trust in the government, and turn to non-government reports. |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 | 04:41 PM
I'm not ambitious enough to go back and check, but I do remember a couple of stories at the time of Saddam's arrest, that he was just in a basement or whatever. But, the Right seemed to jump on the thought of Saddam being in a "Spider Hole", and the scenario stuck. I doubt that the means of Saddam's arrest will be of much importance at his trial, but it is important if lies were put forth, not to confuse the enemy, but to mislead the public in whose name this stupid war was fought. Hoaxes intended to defraud people of money or lives are criminal, and somedamnbody should get some crap over this one. |
supertaster
in Australia
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 04:37 AM
I would have thought that capturing Saddam during a blazing gun battle would have far more propaganda value for the American government than pulling a tired, old man out of a tunnel. |
Mike Z
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 07:20 AM
The "spider hole" and subsequent oral and lice exam were used by the US to make Saddam appear weak and humiliated, a cowardly fugitive. Found alone, in a hole without an escape route, he appears to be trapped. A "blazing gun battle" would have bolstered the perception of Saddam as a captured opposition leader. |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 08:09 AM
What really gets me is the choice of the word "Spider" to describe the "Hole". Why not "Rat" hole? Or "Mole" hole? The propagandists must like spiders |
Rod
in the land of smarties.
Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 09:34 AM
From what I understand from a combination of too much reading and retention of too many useless facts, "spider hole" came about during the Vietman War.
The theory I tend to believe most was this. Before the war, there were "advisors" to the South Viets. These guys came from several different countries. In many of these countries, there are "trapdoor spiders". The spider hides under the camouflaged "door" it built from its web and surroundind vegetation, etc. until its prey gets close enough. Then it pops out, and WHAM, lunch. I guess they drew a parralel.
The Viet-Cong used this same procedure with tunnels covered with camouflage so well that these holes were never found unless they were pointed out by villagers or VC captured. The name "spider hole" stuck.
What this name has to do with some old unarmed fart down a well, I'm not entirely sure, maybe it just seemed a little more scary calling it a "spider hole" than "a well".
Or not. |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 10:10 AM
I think the soldier's new account suggests that although there was an old well on the property, Saddam was not hiding in it. Improperganda |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 10:17 AM
and, lest anyone think I'm sympathetic toward Saddam, well- I'm not. He's a wanker. But, I'd hate to see truth go down a spider-hole, y'now? |
Tronic
in Thailand
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 10:22 AM
This should explain what really happened...
http://www.aztlan.net/husseincapturehoax.htm
http://www.wokr13.tv/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=422B960A-26BA-4891-9E60-21C8818788D4
I read these and think to myself, werent they after bin laden, wtf does saddam have to do with this?, and now they are in afghanistan killing civilians, for what???? |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 10:35 AM
Well, Tronic, the first article you link to suggest that Saddam was in CIA hands long before his "capture". That is a considerable stretch from saying he wasn't in a hole. |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 | 10:37 AM
Let's see how this new account by the soldier plays out for a bit... again, it is all irrelevant to Saddam's trial, but I hate to be lied to... |
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