Posted By:
Captain Al
in Alberta, Canada Jan 12, 2005
I saw this "miracle bracelet", advertised on TV last night and just had to check out their website. With this device, you could win the Olympic marathon or a PGA title. But I wonder what would happen if all your competitors had one too?
Qray
It doesn't matter what I want to believe. All I care about is whether or not the Q-Ray bracelet does what they claim. I don't care if 470,000,000 people found relief. That could be explained by the placebo effect. Personal anecdotal evidence means nothing.
I fully admit I have not tried this product. I am fortunate in that I don't suffer from chronic pain. But suppose I did try it and it did not work. Many people have complained to the FTC that Q-Ray will not honor their guarantee. That does not help their credibility.
My belief is based on Q-Ray's explanation of how the product works. They talk about positive and negative energy as well as ionization. The human body does not have positive and negative energy. And ionization has no bearing on pain. Those are medical facts that cannot be disputed. Therefore there is no scientific basis for the Q-Ray bracelet and no reason for me to support them in any way.
If Q-Ray gives you relief from chronic pain when nothing else will, then I am happy for you. It is not my intent to spoil that. All I am trying to say is the product does not work as claimed. If that might destroy the effect for you, I suggest you don't read this forum because that is what we do here.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:33 PM
A contribution from Cranky Media Guy!
Thanks, I am corrected. The Mayo Study showed 409 patients instead of 470 patients that found pain relief from wearing the Q-Ray Ionized Bracelets.
"The study authors say that although their goal was not to assess the effectiveness of placebos, their results did support the benefit of placebos in the treatment of pain. They also note that 80 percent of the 409 participants who answered an initial survey question about the use of ionized bracelets stated they believed the bracelets can reduce joint or muscle pain."
Somehow Mayo people seems to think that there is a bracelet where 80% of people benefiting because of a placebo effect.
I don't know if you guys want to get into debate about placebos, but don't you think there is something there with the bracelets when 409 people with chronic pain found pain relief, and it happens to be 80% of the study population... anybody??
Don't you find it odd that you can have a placebo effect so high? Anyone dare to try a study with 610 patients with chronic pain with PEZ?
Captain Al, what proof do you want to see that shows that the Q-Ray Bracelet helps people with chronic pain? Would it be as simple as asking 10 people who wears the bracelets if the bracelets have helped with their chronic pain? Say 8 out of 10 people says yes, would that be enough?
Or a rubber stamp from the FDA? Do not quote me on this, but I believe it took FDA 40 to 50 years before they said ok to accupuncure. Even though it has been practiced for 3,000 years. And were those accupuncturists crooks because they practiced accupuncture without FDA's stamp? If so, humanity missed out.
I read your links, and everyone is making fun of chi, ying-yang. Even though Western Medicine does not understand chi and ying-yang (I do not know if there is a method to measure chi), does that mean it does not exist, and people poke fun at it?
Captain Al writes:
"No one is saying wearing a Q-Ray bracelet does not cause pain relief in some people. What is being disputed is whether or not Q-Ray' s claims about a magical product are true."
What exact claims that Q-Ray made about the product is out-rageous?
That the bracelet relieves chronic pain?
If anything else, Q-Ray has worked for me, and I have seen it work on many of my friends. And that is my experience. Your experience may differ, but this is my experience.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:46 PM
Captain Al writes:
"If Q-Ray gives you relief from chronic pain when nothing else will, then I am happy for you. It is not my intent to spoil that. All I am trying to say is the product does not work as claimed. If that might destroy the effect for you, I suggest you don't read this forum because that is what we do here."
I did not mean to spoil your party. At least my thoughts and comments were not filtered anyway.
If you guys are still convinced that this is black and white and did not in anyway make you think that this is not clear cut, the I wish you gents well.
Enjoy your Q-Ray bashings. Au Revoir
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:52 PM
Oh, before I leave, there were couple posts about Magnets earlier. The British Medical Journal published a study called "Randomised controlled trial of magnetic bracelets for relieving pain in osteoarthritis of the hip and knee".
Once you have called something a "placebo," you are saying that the actual object/pill/whatever has no power in and of itself to cure a disease or relieve the symptoms of one. What you are saying is that it could be anything else, so long as the user/wearer believes that it has such power.
If the Mayo Clinic is calling Q-Ray a placebo, that's what they're saying. It could just as easily have been a Tic-Tac or an "ionized headband" or anything else.
Captain Al
in Alberta, Canada Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 01:25 PM
Jason,
I've been going over the study on magnetic pain relief bracelets in the link to the British Medical Journal you provided. Although Q-Ray bracelets claim to use other methods (positive/negative energy, ionization) to achieve pain relief, these magnetic products are an excellent example of how we should judge alternative medical treatments.
I noticed that even the authors are not sure what to make of their own study as indicated by the following three statements:
"We found evidence of a beneficial effect of magnetic wrist bracelets on the pain of osteoarthritis of the hip and knee."
"Our study has not entirely resolved the extent to which the effect of magnetic bracelets is specific or due to placebo."
"...we cannot be certain whether our data show a specific effect of magnets, a placebo effect, or both"
One inherent problem with a study on magnetic bracelets is preventing the subjects from knowing who have the magnetic bracelets and who have the placebos. Those that had the magnetic bracelets could usually tell because they would attract car keys, pins, etc. That made it hard to ensure the knowledge was not affecting their survey answers.
The best part however was the reader responses at the end of the article. This is the essential "peer reviewed" part we always talk about. Since this publication is mirrored on the Internet, responses were not edited or limited to other researchers. Even so it makes interesting reading. Those who responded were a mixture of other researchers, people who sold magnetic pain relief products and people who used magnetic pain relief products. It reads alot like this forum even to the point of someone saying, "Don't knock it until you've tried it".
The responses from those that sell these kind of products can mostly be discounted, for obvious reasons. This point was driven home by one doctor who said, "There is a sucker born every minute and at least three 'entrepreneurs' to attend them."
Personally I put the most weight on the responses from other researchers. They were quite critical about the methodology of this study. This is a sample of what they had to say:
"The correct conclusion from this data is that the attempt to blind treatment has failed and therefore the results are invalid."
"I cannot imagine why such an inconclusive and flawed study should be published at all. There is such a cavalier attitude to possible co-factors and the obviously flawed blinding that the entire study should have been disqualified."
"...the individuals enrolled in the trial will have known they might receive real or dummy magnets and it is quite likely that many will have concealed testing or noticing magnetism in order to tell researchers what they believed they wanted to hear."
"Sir, I am amazed that your journal has published such a paper, and then responses from manufacturers of magnets, with obvious conflicting interests that encourage large numbers of arthritis patients to spend more money on completely unproven methods of pain relief."
I recommend reading the whole study if you are considering using these types of products.
It works
in Canada
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 | 10:16 AM
Hello
I am one of those people who was a skeptic about the Q-ray , till last year i has a back injury ,
Taken pain killers , chro , anti flammitory , etc
Some would bring some relief .
4 hour at at best .
Suffered 10 mths , till one day i came home , and my dauthers boyfriend was there ,( not what i needed to have when i was in pain with little patiance ))
It was my daugther idea , he had a Q-ray on , she told me to try it on .
Why not i,ll amuse her , they can have the laugh i thought .
Well with in 5 minutes the pain was completely gone , i keep it for a week . what i notice , that nite i could not sleep , not from pain which i usally had , but from what felt like i had 2 cups off coffee , ( i do not drink coffee ) nor had any caffeen drinks soda drinks , etc .
I had to take it off .
but used the Q-ray Daily ,
I was nice To be pain free for a whole week , where as i get 2 days at best, of little pain.
So i bought one . I ,ll admit i was shy of wearing one , keep it out of site of my co-workers .
And like yourselves was thought this was Quakery .
As for the placebo effect , will i tried with 3 other people i knew , who are still pain suffers
Mother in-law 66 yr old who has artritus and is old school , i place it on her left arm , and she was amazed the pain was gone after 10 mins , and she bought one .
Wife aunt , same thing , had never heard of the Q-ray , tried it last nite , also 10 mins pain was gone . she may buy one but was shocked of the price , told her add the cost of the drugs you taken in a year ? $80.00 is not that bad .
Another Friend heard of it , but like me ,seen it as a rip off , and was amazed .
I understand your Doubts about it,,
As it does not work for evey one ,and as for the Neg, pos ENERGY , chi and che ????
Only thing i can say we are Biomechanical , biochemial beings , ECG can pick up impulses.
It may have something to do with simulating your endorphins naturally ?
All i know it works ,and do not have to worry of drug built up in my organs
The only reason a person may try to shoot this product down ,
Money or have shares in a drug company , after all it is a Billion dollar market.
Many Good , others Not .
But Some ,if they could ,would charge you for the air you breath. they got us at drinking water .
food for thought
Alex Haines
in Truro N.S
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 | 07:01 AM
Jason,
You sound like you work for the company
Q-rays are definately fraudulant because my brother always wears one and talks about how great it is so one day a swiched his with one i got at a dollar store and he still said it was helping him.
Barrie Brown
in Ontario Canada
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 | 08:26 PM
Some years ago (maybe 10 or more) I was sent to a sports clinic following surgery for tennis elbo and one of the things they tried was to sit me in a PLASTIC chair and they had this "ring" that was an electromagnet they put around my torso (with my arms inside) to "stimulate healing". At the time I remember thinking, "What a crock! Next they'll be waving dead chickens in my face; what a bunch of witch doctors these guys are!". THEN THEY FLIPPED THE SWITCH... Wow! Holy S**T! After 2 minutes I begged them to turn it off! I was totally disoriented, dizzy, sweating bullets and felt like I'd just ridden the worlds most scary roller coaster! I tried to stand but couldn't! I felt like a wet dish towel. To those who think that magnetic radiation waves don't do anything to the human body, check out your local sports clinic and you'll change your mind. As for the nausia, I think they just had the settings too high, and I can appreciate that a Q-Ray (or any similar weak "permanent magnet") would have much less strength than the powerful clinical electro-magnet they used on me.
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Sunny
in South Carolina
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 | 02:07 PM
Greetings - I stubbled across this site while doing some research on magnetized water - and thought I would add to this conversation. I would like to say that I've been using magnets for about 2 months now. I have a magnetic mattress pad ($500 - MY cost) and I also have a magnetic brick that magnetize my water. If one wants to achieve successful results, then one must invest money in a reputable company that sells top quality magnetic products. These bracelets, etc that they sell at Wal-Mart and pharmacies are obviously inexpensive enough to take many to the cleaners. And personally, that $350 bracelet made me raise my brow! The keyword you want to remember when shopping for magnetic products is the 'effective rating' or another word is gauss. The higher the gauss, the better product you have. This is one thing that you don't want to go cheap on - it is something that you defintiely better do your homework online - gather your data - and then make a sound decision! Please, stay away from the el cheapo 'wannabe' products. There IS a difference! Hmmm - here is a fact to ponder - and it's be proven (do your homework and research!) - a good quality magnet will shrink a tumor - keyword SHRINK - not perform magic and get rid of - but will SHRINK a tumor. And another thing to remember about magnets is that they are not a 'cure-all' - you've gotta eat healthy too! I've heard and read some amazing results from others using magnetic products. Afterall, if I had not, Isure wouldn't haven't invested my hard earned $$$$$ to buy a hoax product!! Thanks for reading - I hope you all will research and know the facts that you are giving to others. I know I did. Have a groovy day and good health to you all.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 | 03:57 PM
Sunny, you are engaging in wishful thinking here. There is NO scientific evidence that any magnetic product you can buy commercially (no matter its gauss rating) is effective in the treatment of any medical condition.
No offense, I'm sure you're a lovely person, but you are EXACTLY the kind of consumer I would hope to encounter if I was selling some form of quackery. You have convinced yourself that the more expensive quack items are the "real thing" whereas the cheap stuff is worthless. I can't think of a better way to pick your pocket semi-legally.
Jeff Norris
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 | 08:37 AM
Jason Campbell,
Hi Buddy,
I have just recently, after many long years in development, released my 'Magic Weeney Enlargement Device.' It weighs less than 23 pounds, fits snuggly to the head of your penis (via a patent-pending stainless steel vise-like clamping mechanism), and results can be seen in as little as 30 days by wearing the device for as little as 10 hours per day. Please visit my website at 'www.WeFlyByNight.com' to order yours today.
Optional carrying case, velvet-lined suspenders and vagina-lined (simulated) 'Weeney-Cover' sold seperately.
No warranty expressed or implied (other than we guarantee to not respond to emails, answer any phone calls, or make any refunds)
Jeff Norris
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 | 09:07 AM
Ooooops, almost forgot (just to keep the lawyers happy).
Some side-effects may include, but not limited to:
Severe Pain
Permanent Penis Damage
Public Ridicule
'WeeWee Only Points South Syndrome'
Numerous, random and unauthorized bank card deductions
Impotentance
The feeling of a large, rigid object in rearend
Individual Results May Vary
Please check out other items including:
'Dr. B's Magic Booby Butter'-practically guaranteed to enlarge the breasts, male or female (2) cup sizes with only (1) application and in less that (1) hour!! (Do not use near open flames)
'Larry's Eternal Life Elixir'-Study is ongoing, but we have test subjects that have lived for over 10 years while taking this revolutionary new product
mrotto Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 08:57 PM
LOL!!!!That post just made my day,too funny ,laughter is actually the greatest medicine...my back ache is now magically gone,thanks Jeff!!
That Jason Campbell guy is not only a client but is the owner of company(I think)what a moron!
zim
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 | 01:10 PM
i have heard the same thing from 3 different people i know over the past 3-4 years.... i made unmerciful fun of them.... they still wear them... these guys say it helps with aches in their hands..... i dont know but as one told me, so what it something or nothing, if i think it helps then why do you care?
Captain Al
in Alberta, Canada Member
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 | 04:10 PM
zim,
Some people wear these "miracle bracelets" and get pain relief. That we can't deny. The question being debated is whether or not the bracelet has anything to do with it.
We should care because Q-Ray and others may be making false claims about their products. That is illegal. If these claims are false and we let them go unchallenged, some people may assume they really work and forgo conventional proven treatments which could make their condition worse. Even if no conventional treatment is available, at least we have kept them from wasting their money.
Kokushibyou
in Ontario, Canada
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 02:18 PM
Greetings all
I saw one of the commercials for the 'magic' Q-Ray Ionized Braclet, and thought I would look up some things about it and came across this forum.
Now I will not say I suffer from cronic pain, (in my opinion) but I do suffer from bad knees. This basically means that every now and then, one of both of my knees lock up, and I collaps in a fit of pain. This is very inconvenient and often painful, but my opinion of it is to DEAL with it. I have had physical examinations done, so I know what the issue is and I probably will have to have serious sergury in a few years.
In my opinion, it is far better to try and deal with the issue as it is, rather then to hide behind some drug or product that may or may not be 'proven' (and I use that word strongly) to relieve pain. I find that every time I have a lock up, if I just sit or lay down for several minutes and let the pain run through its course, the next time is much easier on me.
I know I went off on a little tandom here, and I do not expect in any way for anyone to accept or even agree with my methods. I just wish to make the point that 'cronic' pain is only what we let it be. (In my opinion) If others feel that using a drug or product to relieve the pain is worth it, then that is their business, and have every right to it. If they use them only because someone told them it would work, and did not look into it for themselves first, then I see that as troubling since it leaves them open for dishonest people to try and take advantage of them. (which has more then often worked and I have had previous job experience to see it for myself)
PS: For those like Jason Campbell, and others who adamently defend any 'unconclusevaly proven' product or drug, mearly because it 'works', I will not bother to argue with. You have made your opinion, and will use anything you can find to defend it, so I at least thank you for reading my OPINION, but please do not use me to further attempt to convince others.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 03:37 PM
Kokushibyou, let me start by saying that I'm truly sorry that you live with chronic pain. It must be very difficult for you. Having said that, I have to add that I think it's unconscionable for the Q-Ray people to take money from people like you by implying that their product can help.
I don't know if you've noticed this, but the current Q-Ray ads are VERY non-specific about what the bracelets are supposed to "do." They talk about "general wellbeing" and so forth. That has no real meaning; after all, a nice new tie *could* give some people a sense of "general wellbeing."
There's a reason the Q-Ray advertising is the way it is these days. They got into trouble several years back for implying that the bracelets had some curative power. The government took exception with that (as it should) and ordered them to take any such claims out of the ads. Does that tell you anything about the product and the people behind it?
