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Q-Ray Performance Bracelet
Posted By:
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Jan 12, 2005
 I saw this "miracle bracelet", advertised on TV last night and just had to check out their website. With this device, you could win the Olympic marathon or a PGA title. But I wonder what would happen if all your competitors had one too? Qray
Category: Fashion, Sports; Replies: 159

Comments
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Accipiter
Member
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 | 02:01 PM
Even if it is just a psychosomatic placebo effect (which I suspect it is), this magnetism craze can still apparently make some people feel better. The problem with that, though, is that it would most likely only help the person ignore the symptoms, not fix the actual problem causing the pain/fatigue/whatever. So even if you are using magnets and your chronically aching shoulder is feeling better, you still should check with a doctor to make certain that your arm isn't about to rot off. All the same, if somebody's desperate enough to spend lots of money to cover themselves in magnets, I'm not going to try to stop them. Maybe it will at least make them think that they feel better. I'll just make sure that they stay a minimum of 20 feet away from my computer and other electronics.

Which raises another interesting question: just how strong of a magnetic field do these magnet therapy things put out? I can imagine these companies who make them getting sued because someone accidentally fries their CPU with their magnetic shoes.
Molly
in Newfoundland
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 02:19 PM
Anne Hillebrand is my hero smile
Mort
in Just left of centre
 Member
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 | 05:31 AM
And mine too now, legend....!
Diane
in Indiana
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 | 08:42 AM
I gotta admitt I have a son who can't stand being without his q ray. I have no idea why it works for him, but when he isn't wearing it he is unfocused and complains about pains almost everywhere. With the crazy bracelet (a $25.00 model I get off ebay) he feels great, concentrates in school and everthing. I hope he is o.k. today since I borrowed it this morning for a sore wrist I woke up with, now my wrist feels much better, but he will be lost at High School. About 1/2 my family physically can tell the difference when they put his on. The others don't feel a thing..... I don't know what it is, but $25.00 to keep him from complaining is a deal.
Jason Campbell
in San Mateo, CA
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 09:40 AM
First of all, Cranky Media Guy, you're an idiot.

Whether people think the bracelets are placebo or not, why does it matter as long as the bracelets have helped them with their pain.

How do you know that the Q-Ray Bracelets do not work? Because it did not work on you? Did you have pain and actually tried the product? It's simple enough, go to a Golf store and ask someone if you can try it. And even if it does not work for you, does that mean it doesn't help others.

Tell me, does Tylenol work 100% to all people? Do you know of a cream, pill, surguery that works on every body? I am sick of all these skeptics that probably did not even experience the bracelets themselves bashing the bracelets.

Why do you think people are looking for other holistic approaches for pain relief. Because the traditional methods did not address their needs. Maybe a simple Ionized bracelet may meet those people's needs. So step off.

And there has been studies done on the Ionized Bracelets and Magnet Bracelets. In fact the Mayo Clinic study did a study with the Q-Ray bracelets that claimed that the Q-Ray Bracelets are no better than a Placebo effect. That you would get the same effects from a Q-Ray Bracelet than a Lance Armstrong rubber band.

What the Mayo does not tell the public is that the people who wore the Q-Ray bracelet, 78% of patients found pain relief. 74% of the patients that wore a placebo found pain relief. Mayo says, 4% is not statisically significant enough, so the bracelets must be a hoax. But ask the average Joe who is suffering from pain. Even though it may be a placebo effect, if you have 80% chance that your pain will be gone, would you take it?

In some cases medical doctors can't give you this assurance.

Look, there are many people out there that find pain relief from the bracelets, and you do them diservice by bashing the bracelets because A) you did not try the bracelet, or B) the bracelet did not work for you.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 10:11 AM
Jason, $80 minimum for a placebo? Do you not see that as fraud? Since it's a placebo why don't they sell them for $5? Obviously there's nothing special about them.

Tell you what, I have a $1000 placebo guaranteed to give you a 75% chance of pain relief. Why not take a chance and purchase it?

There are plenty of cheaper placebos out there. Try some PEZ, it works wonders.
Jason Cambell
in San Mateo, CA
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 10:47 AM
To Charybdis in Hell,

Fine, don't purchase a $80 placebo. As I wrote earlier, go to a Pro Shop/retailer shop that has the bracelets and try one on. People say that the bracelets work within a minute.

You go to a Pro-Shop, try a bracelet on, sit there for 1 minute and if you notice that your pain is gone, wouldn't that be worth $80 to you?

If it did not work for you, then you do not have to buy it.

Pain is such a subjective thing. A very bad pain for you might not be very bad for another person. So only you will know if the bracelets work.

The only thing you might have wasted in meeting your curiosity whether the product worked or not was walking over to a retail store that carries these magic bracelets.

Ok, for $80 you might be buying a placebo, but if your chronic pain (I am not talking about pulling a muscle) is gone, isn't it worth it?

Ok, maybe you think that you feel the placebo effect the first minute you put the bracelet on and is afraid the pain will come back when you leave the retailer. There are websites out there offering 30 day money back guarantee.

Is there anyone that tried the bracelet and did absolutely nothing for them?

Is there anyone that tried the bracelet and did wonders for them in chronic pain?

Charybdis, if you have a $1,000 placebo guaranteed to give me 75% pain relief. Send it to me for free. I will try it out. And if it does what you say it does, then I will send you a check for $1,000. How bout that?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 03:47 PM
Jason Campbell said:

"First of all, Cranky Media Guy, you're an idiot."

When you start off like that, I lose interest in talking to you. I have responses to what you say about Q-Ray but based on that opening sentence, you are now on my Do Not Respond list.

If anyone else would care to make the same points without the ad hominem attack, I will be happy to respond.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 05:46 PM
To Cranky Media Guy

"When you start off like that, I lose interest in talking to you. I have responses to what you say about Q-Ray but based on that opening sentence, you are now on my Do Not Respond list."

What are you, the comic book store owner from the Simpsons?

Anyway, many people found benefits from wearing the Q-Ray Ionized Bracelet. I will post their testimonials. It's public record at

http://www.ionic-health.com/qray_reviews/

To the people who gave their testimonials, the pain relief they get from Q-Ray is very real to them.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 06:32 PM
I could go on, but I won't.

People, you are smart. Don't take my word for it, and don't listen to those bashers like Cranky Media Guy.

You can try it for yourself and you be the judge on whether this is good or not. I bet half these bashers don't know what true chronic pain feels like or even tried the bracelets on themselves.

Just because the drug companies and medical doctors have a bias towards alternative medicine does not mean it does not work.

Ask any doctor that the gold standard for clinical testing is the Double Blind study. Well it is impossible to get the Double Blind Study in accupuncture because there are only so much accupressure points in the body. Even though their never was a Double Blind study for accupuncture, FDA accepts it. Why, I don't know, maybe because 3,000 years of Chinese Medicine Theory, which our so called doctors can not explain with tests, has shown people saying it helps with their pain.
Anne Hillebrand
in Orlando, FL
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 10:19 PM
My degree is Accounting (B.S.)

We talked about ads, but nothing about hominems.

But when ya'll talk about Q Ray, and hominems, you better ask Dr. Ruth.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 11:03 AM
Jason, I removed your testimonials. The link you posted will suffice without swamping us with posts.

Testimonials from the company's website are meaningless. There's an extreme conflict of interest there and they aren't to be trusted. This applies to any website trying to sell a product, not just Ionic Health.

From the FDA's website.

<i>The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health by assuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, medical devices, our nation
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 11:09 AM
Some news on Q-Ray in this week's commentary by James Randi. One of his readers reports on Q-Ray. Some highlights:

"the FTC took action against Q-Ray for deceptive claims of pain relief and sought consumer reimbursement for those who fell prey to the lie"

and this:

"As further incrimination, researchers at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL concluded a study in 2002 revealing no distinction between use of the Q-Ray and an identical placebo in relieving musculoskeletal pain. "
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 11:17 AM
A couple of FTC statements about Q-Ray.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/qtinc.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/05/maverick.htm

More at http://search.ftc.gov/query.html?qt="q-ray"
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 11:42 AM
Jason,

There is nothing in the evidence you presented that cannot be explained by the placebo effect. So what is the harm in this if the pain is relieved? Lots. What if someone's pain could be relieved by conventional proven medicine and they decide to pass up that treatment and use a placebo instead? There could be serious consequences for that person's health. Do you want to take responsibility for that?

No one is saying wearing a Q-Ray bracelet does not cause pain relief in some people. What is being disputed is whether or not Q-Ray' s claims about a magical product are true. The fact is they are not. If someone's pain cannot be relieved by conventional treatment, then perhaps there is no treatment for that condition at this time. That does not automatically mean products such as Q-Ray are real. It only means there is a market for fraudulent products for people with no other options. Companies like Q-Ray prey on these people by offering products with unproven claims. You are doing the public a disservice by giving Q-Ray any sort of credibility.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 01:06 PM
To Captain Al and Charybdis in Hell

You guys bring up some good points, but where should I start, the FDA or the FTC.

Let's start with FDA. I am an American and I love the USA. But do I blindly believe in the government and the FDA. Believe it or not, there is a Drug Industry out there. Drugs companies amount to approximately 14% of the US Gross National Product (GNP). That is a lot of money swung around which keeps FDA pro Drugs and anti-anything else. And millions of millions of dollars are spent on clinical studies, which is the reason drug costs are driven up. Joe public understands that there is an identical drug produced in Canada which the US drug companies are complaining to the FDA, because they had to foot the money for the clinical trials and the Canada drugs companies didn't so the cost of Canada drugs are cheaper. So FDA steps in to protect the US Drug companies to say the Canada drugs are "UNSAFE", even though they may be identical drugs.

There are approximately 106,000 deaths a year from non-error, adverse effects of medication. The big news was the those Arthritis drugs like Vioxx that killed 140,000 people by heart attacks. http://www.vioxx-center.com/

Vioxx was a drug that was approved by the FDA. It's no wonder more and more people are looking for alternative medicine. In the US, 36% of the population looks for some form of alternative medicine and the numbers increase over the years. There are more medical doctors who mix up alternative and traditional medicines because more and more patients are asking for them.

http://www.arthritis.org/resources/arthritistoday/2001_archives/2001_03_04_morethanmedicine.asp

So what does Q-Ray have to do with Alternative Medicine. Well Q-Ray is not your traditional drug that a doctor perscribes.

I do not want to sound like the Natural Cures guy. All I am saying is that let's not be naiive in thinking that the all mighty FDA is not influenced by these drug companies.

Is the FDA more interested in saving people's lives or help the Drug economy. That is the big question. If the FDA and the drug companies had their way, accupuncture would be illegal in this country.

Ok, for the FTC. Let me read the links you provide and gather up my thoughts.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 01:14 PM
Let me clarify a point:

"So what does Q-Ray have to do with Alternative Medicine. Well Q-Ray is not your traditional drug that a doctor perscribes."

What I mean to say here is that there are things are items out there that may not have been proven to the FDA, but that does not mean it does not work. The Arthritis Today article goes into this.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 06:24 PM
Before I dive into the FTC, doesn't anyone believe that a verdict should be made before any judgement is given. I thought we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Or are we saying that if the almightly FTC bashes a product, it must be true and they must be guilty.

FTC vs Q-Ray.

Charybdis, thanks for the link.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/qtinc.htm

Because this is on the FTC website, the information is going to be one sided. For any of you non attorneys that do not know what a Exparte TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) is, it is the biggest bat that this government agency has. It is a power that the FTC has abused over and over again, but nobody seems to notice, and frankly I am surprised this is allowed in the US. It is like Nazi Gestapo. A TRO is where the FTC can go in front of the judge without a person or a company present to defend themselves in court, and convince (or lie) to the judge that this person or company is a scammer or a flight risk. And if the judge agrees to the TRO, the FTC has the power to freeze the person's bank account, paralyzing a person or entity from access to any money they have in their bank account. In this case, the FTC went after the company bank account and as well as the owner
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 06:29 PM
Charybdis, you wrote:

"Testimonials from the company's website are meaningless. There's an extreme conflict of interest there and they aren't to be trusted. This applies to any website trying to sell a product, not just Ionic Health."

Fine, but at least give Diane credit for what she wrote in this messageboard on 9/21/05.

Also have you noticed that the Mayo Clinic does not want to touch their study with a 100 foot pole? You go to Mayo Clinic website and look for the actual study, you can not find it anywhere. You can find the exerpts, but not the study itself. Isn't that odd to you?

If someone finds the actual study, please let me know the link.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:19 PM
Jason,

People and companies are innocent until proven guilty but scientific claims are not. It is up to Q-Ray to prove what they claim is true and they have not done this. That is why they attracted the attention of the FTC. They also were not honoring their product's warranty.

I'm sure you agree having some kind of consumer protection against fraudulent products is a good thing. The FTC needs some kind of authority to carry out its work. Even so, they still need to get a judge to sign off on it. It works like a search warrent, unless you don't agree with those either. I'm sure the FTC makes mistakes, but I'll bet it works 99.9% of the time. There are millions of companies operating without TRO's. That's because they have legitimate products and services. Why shouldn't Q-Ray be held to the same standard?

To compare the FTC to the Gestapo is a slap in the face of democracy. After all, we can elect a government to disband the FTC. Try that in Nazi Germany. If you feel the FTC is conspiring against certain industries for their own benefit, that is a matter for a higher authority. Write to your elected representitive. You had better have proof though. And you had better wait until the verdict on Q-Ray is in.
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