Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.
***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)
What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452
Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??
I never said that your friend robbed the money, so you're arguing against a point I didn't make.
"Again, people have the choice of not participating and allowing themselves to lose or gain money - its a gamble. And as such it deserves no more demonising than gambling knowingly with the lotteries."
This has been said many times over the course of this thread, but I guess it needs to be said yet again: state-run lotteries are legal, chain letters are NOT legal.
Part of the reason for that is that legal lotteries never claim to be able to make everyone come out ahead (a mathematical impossibility) while chain letters DO often make that claim.
Lotteries are also accountable to the public (in how they are run and what the money is used for) while chain letters are not.
"Govt gambling with our monies in the way it does is another kettle of fish. They don't have a mandate to do that."
I don't disagree with that but it's irrelevant to the topic of chain letters. One impropriety does not excuse another one. Put another way, two wrongs don't make a right.
"You seem to have difficulty wrapping your head around the fact that periodically people participate in gambles that lose/gain them money."
No, that is not a problem for me. You, on the other hand, seem to have a problem distinguishing between a LEGAL lottery which discloses the odds of winning and an ILLEGAL chain letter which claims that every participant can come out ahead, something which is IMPOSSIBLE and therefore a lie.
Julie
in Michigan
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 | 06:50 PM
Ok, so I have spent most of my evening reading through this fourm. First I have to say a few things my space bar is broken so forgive any errors in that regard, and my spelling and grammar suck. So please don't rip on me I am well aware of my downfalls.
First I can't belive that this fourm is still going on, I keep reading and reading and its just never ending. But then it makes sense because I think I have now gotten 3 of these "Chain Letters." I take responsibilty for it as in a month of desperation I thought maybe there really was a home base something were a person might be able to actaully work from home and make some extra money. So I gave my info on the internet like a dumb a**. However I am pretty sure I didn't give my address but who know it was so long ago now. Any way each letter I have gotten has been pretty much the same, and only a few small differences. There are differnt names on the lists, but it just makes me feel sad to think that there really are people who believe this just may work.
I have done some research as I didn't want to get scamed in my quest for extra cash, but until today didn't stumble onto this site. I do have to say I was tempted it seems like a great idea but wanted to thank everyone for their helpful posts and pointing out all the tricks to make you think its legal. Also for doing the math for me as I am just not capable of that. (failed it a few times)
I work in the feild of CJ, and must say that i wonder how this letter keeps getting around. I am sure it has been brought to the attention of the postmaster at some point, but then of course people don't really send replies so it mustn't get noticed.
I skiped through the last I don't know like 30 pages of posts though so I don't know if some has actaully taken the letter to their post office and asked them. I am not saying I am going to do that, because I am sure the people whos names are on this list are just poor suckers who thought maybe just maybe this might work, but i just wanted to know if there has been any posts on here regarding that.
Cranks, I have to say that other than in the uber-fine print for which you need a magnifying glass to read, I've never seen a lottery that discloses your real chances of winning, or should I say loosing. Last time I looked, the Maryland Lottery was advertising the multi-gazillions up for grabs with Powerball, all advertised in giant numbers and bright happy colors accompanied by triumphant faces. The laws of disclosure can hardly be called even remotely adequate. All designed to entice you to participate...kinda like the chain letters...
Here is where my point regarding bad govt behaviour comes in. I think you need to take into account that for a lot of people there is such a thing as a 'moral economy' as well as a 'legal economy'. Our economy has legalised a lot of thievery and has thus lost its moral basis and that this why legal or not, these chain letters continue to persist, because in this country the law has lost the high moral ground. When people see the govt actively taking from future generations of Americans, creating nonstop debt, through printing eight billion dollars and donating it to crooked banks who refuse to discontinue outrageous bonuses then the 'law' stops being respected and they laugh at the notion of chain letters being ohhh so bad and evil, when right in front of their noses some mega "scams"s are taking place "legally". I'm not saying this is good - this is what has happened. The law has lost its respect, the charge being led by crooked lawmakers and corporations.
Julie in Michigan, a point to bear in mind about the continual reappearance of these letters is this. There are some people who have made money out of these chain letters. They don't advertise the fact or hop on these threads airing their thoughts like we do. Thse forums are for the spectators. But often there are people like me (and the gentleman on this forum that came on many moons ago talking about that young man at his work who made $600,000 though these letters)who know directly of one person who made money. So lots of people know of 1 person who made money. The reality is that we can't possibly know the real number because the winners keep it under wraps. There may be people who never tell anyone at all. I worked with a woman who inherited through a deceased bachelor uncle several million dollars and no one knew for years until she retired that she was in fact fabulously wealthy. So lots of people fullstop do not by their discreet nature talk about windfalls. In fact, the letter I received tells the reader, and I'll quote here "...to keep it quiet for a while...and once it has worked for you, then share it with family and friends"
So we really are speculating on whether they work or not. But I am sure they will continue to reappear for years to come, because like the lotteries, they sell hope, legal or otherwise.
karphan
in Seattle
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 | 06:05 PM
I wasn't scared into not doing this chain thing by cranky, I just saw flaws in this system that I didn't want to take a chance with.
Could be one reason this is illegal is the government has no control over how to tax this, same for pot, if pot was taxed, it in itself would be legal, forget the fact it gets you high, liquor gets you drunk, cops pull you over and BAM more money for the local government.
Squeaker
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 | 11:45 AM
It has nothing to do with taxation. It has to do with history - the incident in 1935 when a letter of this type almost destroyed Colorado through economic collapse.
Read some of the older pages, around page 40 or so.
john
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 | 02:17 PM
I got this a year ago when i was pretty financially sound. I hit a rut lost my house my job and now im in debt and it will probably take me 10 years to get out of it. I tried this did a little research and you know what if it works it works. What do i have to lose i guess if you try to make some easy money to survive its illegal right. This is such a crock of shit that its illegal. I mean there arent any jobs out there as it is. The rich get richer and theres no middle class anymore. Just because its not done over the internet or for some law back in 1935 that no one knows about i mean its illegal. I would love to see some money come back so i could catch up on some bills, but im sure that if i do it will get taken away just like everything else because the govt is to involved in screwing over the people that actually try to make a good living and not the ones that make this country worse than it already is. Its funny how rich bush and cheney are isnt is when they only made 400 grand a year haha yeah right. Or condoleeza rice having a oil boat named after her but after people caught on she had it striped from the boat so no one would get suspicious. Who cares about a stupid letter that could help some little people out. This just shows you incompetance and where the heads are in this country. I guess ill go to jail for 5 to 30 years for something i had no idea about and someone that lets just say donte stallworth MURDERS someone and gets like 18 days in jail. BULLSHIT
Cranky Media Guy Member
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 | 04:46 PM
Mary and John, I think you should keep in mind that the people who operate chain letters are not "little guys" fighting against the corruption in society. They are con artists who use people's fear of going under economically and their misunderstanding of basic arithmetic to take their money.
The fact that there are large injustices in the world (something I do not dispute) does NOT mean that chain letters work as claimed.
"Cranks, I have to say that other than in the uber-fine print for which you need a magnifying glass to read, I've never seen a lottery that discloses your real chances of winning, or should I say loosing."
Well, the disclosure may not be prominent enough for your liking, but it does exist. On the other hand, have you ever seen a chain letter (or ANY kind of scam) that tells you it's designed solely to separate you from your money? The wording is typically something like, "If we're all honest, everyone can come out ahead," which is a mathematical impossibility.
Mary from Maryland
in Maryland
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 | 02:24 PM
What's really weird with Cranky is his rabid insistance that it is a mathematical impossibility and never works! Well it worked for one person I know so either I must either be a liar or imagining the whole thing in your book. People who are in the chain mail are "little guys" - they're not the Ted Turners or Rupert Murdochs or the three families who own the Feds; they don't need to participate in the chains, they rip people off with the blessing of the govt...your obsessed with the little guy doing chain mail....weird weid
Cranky Media Guy Member
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 | 04:18 PM
Mary said:
"What's really weird with Cranky is his rabid insistance that it is a mathematical impossibility and never works! Well it worked for one person I know so either I must either be a liar or imagining the whole thing in your book."
OR your reading comprehension is sub-par. What I always say is that chain letters CANNOT work AS CLAIMED. That's a reference to stuff chain letters often say like, "If we're all honest, we everyone can come out ahead." (In fact I said just that in the last comment I posted, right at the end.) THAT, Mary, IS a mathematical impossibility.
OF COURSE an INDIVIDUAL can come out ahead with a chain letter. Why do you think scam artists run them?
"People who are in the chain mail are "little guys" - they're not the Ted Turners or Rupert Murdochs or the three families who own the Feds; they don't need to participate in the chains, they rip people off with the blessing of the govt...your obsessed with the little guy doing chain mail....weird weid"
Your logic is that since "big guys" rip people off, it's OK for smaller fish to operate scams. I'd like to point out to you that "big guys" don't put money into chain letters. It's the people who can least afford to lose a few bucks who get involved with them. In other words, they are victims of the "big guys "AND the "little guys." How does that help them?
Tart
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 | 04:47 AM
Mary...
You've seen how much good a grassroots movement can do. These letters are an example of the other side of the same principle, a grassroots movement that harms everyone instead of helping.
In essence, the letter is the pimp; you're the whore serving him, if you delude yourself into thinking it will work for you.
Mary from Maryland
in Maryland
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 | 05:55 AM
If we are going to take the 'harm' angle, I think state sanctioned gambling and debt-addictiveness, lotteries and casinos, drugs and corporate theft (again usually govt sanctioned) are a good place to start not chain-letters. Have you ever heard of a chain-letter addict whos lost mega bunks???
While these $1 to 6 people letters don't create wealth, they transfer existing monies. (Unlike the govt's $800billion print off that was transferred to the wealthy and the taxpayer left to pay it off for generations to come) Let's say we have city of 8001 adults. Lets also say that at one point 8000 of these adults decide to voluntarily divert a dollar to one of their residents who needs the money. Ok so their fellow resident is $8000 richer. This money is already in the economy, its simply being transferred around. If lots of people think it's a good idea they'll do it and it will work. If they don't it won't work. No one is being ripped off. Why is this so hard to understand.
Cranky Media Guy Member
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 | 12:55 PM
Mary said:
"Let's say we have city of 8001 adults. Lets also say that at one point 8000 of these adults decide to voluntarily divert a dollar to one of their residents who needs the money. Ok so their fellow resident is $8000 richer."
OK, so what's stopping you from organizing something like that? It would be perfectly legal and you'd know where the money was going. It's what charities do every day.
With a chain letter, you don't get to pick who gets the windfall, assuming that anyone gets it at all--after all, you don't know that the person running the chain hasn't rigged the game by using multiple identities.
I'll say it again in the hope that this time you might get it. Chain letters do NOT promise to make ONE individual come out ahead. They typically make claims that EVERYONE can come out ahead, which is mathematically impossible. You keep ignoring this point.
Mary, you seem to think that chain letters are just harmless fun which the mean old government is trying to spoil. You might want to go back through this thread and find the links to news stories about how chains have actually destroyed the economy of a country or two. Is that likely to happen in THIS country? Not really, but back in the 1930's, they clogged up the postal system very badly.
Tart
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 | 03:50 PM
Mary... chain letter addicts have lost "mega-bucks" repeatedly.
The same folks who fall for chain letters tend to fall for everything else, too. Ad Surf Daily. Elite Activity. Gasoline pills. Phony ant farms. Nigerian Lads. Laetrile.
Think about it for a bit.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal. Member
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 | 05:46 PM
Are phony ant farms full of cute little wind-up ants?
Tart (but not tiny)
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 | 08:47 PM
No. That was a reference to a scheme in China not long ago where people were led to believe that they were raising gourmet ants for restaurants, but all the company behind it did with filled ant farms sent back to them was dump them out, refill with sand and whatever was used as starter ants, and sell it to another sucker.
Much like the bacterial cosmetics schemes that hit mid-western america around 2-3 decades ago.
Andie
in USA
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 | 01:50 PM
Well Friends; I have received this letter at least three times and passed it off as a possible effort at will. I have listened intently to this thread and find that we as a desperate nation really are not sure what is fact or fiction. As was so eloquently stated (Paraphrased Version) a pyramid is a chance to make the guy at the top a fat cat with everyone else receiving little or nothing for their efforts. The key here is chance, of which is left open to interpretation. We must be our own conscious police when it comes to interpretation. We must be able to make a decision that reflects our own personal values system. If we fail to listen to our own conscience then we have numbed our very sense of reasoning. I can’t make the decision for you, and you can’t make the decision for me. We are all at different levels of understanding and desire to do what is right within the boundaries our own set of ideals, and values. Where it is written that I should speak over you when you have voiced your opinion, never I say! We must respect each others opinion as a part of being a community within what we call the human race. When we stop pouncing we will begin the basic stages of the learning process to formulate our values. If we continue to pounce out our thoughts and force these ideals on willing less experience soles then we have not learned to live, rather we have pulled an aggressive blinder over our own lives thus skewing our own value system for learning. Be patient with one another and reach out too each other with a gentleness in which we as individuals desire to be reached and respected. This letter may be truth or it may fiction, but as I have personally research in the many forums in which I have been involved, there are at least one or two who have stated that they have reaped a harvest, and that my friends is a blessing unto them. Have an awesome day friends. I encourage you in developing your own set of upstanding values and opinions too help people and not to tear them down, as this my friends will change our world for the good. Blessings to you all!
SUNNY
in USA
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 | 09:09 PM
I think someone figured out how to beat the system I got one of those letters about sending money to the names on the list and request being added then it has on the other page how it SHOULD work and explains that GOD is the way to pray over how many will help you...... it's one of the amendments freedom of religion..... this one just might be legal.....
Cranky Media Guy Member
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 | 11:55 PM
SUNNY said:
"it's one of the amendments freedom of religion..... this one just might be legal....."
So, Sunny, using your logic, if a person robs a bank but says it's because God told them to, they would get away with it?
Sorry but it doesn't work that way. This would hardly be the be the first time in America that criminals used people's faith to scam them. You have not discovered a "loophole" in the law.
Ray from Oregon
in Oregon
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 | 01:41 AM
Well I am sending Letters out tomorrow... I got the letter a few weeks ago and have done a lot of thinking. My wife did somthing like this a few years back, except she was to give her panty size ... and a bunch of her girlfriends were getting boxes of sexy underware .. lol .. as silly as it sounds it worked .. it was anoing to say the least ... for weeks little panties can flooding to our mail box ... I am going to say a few bucks will come in as well. I am going to try it first hand ... if it does not work, oh well .. I dont want to do it to get rich, I have a great life, & great job. I want to test it out .. just cause I can, I want to get to the bottom of the debate ... what can it hurt? ... I will let you all know how it all turns out!
dan
in MASS
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 | 07:54 AM
hi there, i received the letter also and have been trying to decide whether to do it or not. I jumped on line to see what I could find out about it and I'm really surprised at all the people that are so concerned about it being illegal. I try to be as honest and legal as the next guy, but why are any of the people above so concerned about other people trying to make a buck and I don't see why the post office would have a problem, they're most likely very happy to see people using stamps. So honestly where's the moral problem?? My question is; is there any reality to the oprah / 20/20 stuff. that's what I came on line to find??
