How about some hoax-busting on the stories about collecting a child's weight in empty Walkers Crisps Packets to fund an operation and the one that is currently going round Britain like wildfare - a hoax about collecting a wheelchair's weight in plastic milk bottle tops or other plastic bottle tops to get someone a wheelchair?
That's what I can't figure out...Why not the bottles? From reading the posts I've gathered that there are not any charities who are using recycled tops to MAKE money. Some posts have said that they have participated in a program, but there has been no proof. Naomi house is the only post that seems legit...but again...who is accepting the bottle tops for/as/in lieu of money??
Dominic Shields
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 | 03:24 PM
I started a thread some days ago in alt.folklore.urban on this subject and one of the contributors offered what I think to be a very perceptive remark.
"I have seen people involved in these campaigns before, usually associated with church. I don't see how the organizer can not know that it is a hoax, so I cynically assume that they are flexing their muscles by doing this."
I find the psychology fascinating, particularly the mechanism whereby anyone who seeks information is automatically a heretic.
Robin
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 | 01:20 PM
The bottle tops we have been collecting have been passed on to a legitimate collection point I can assure you . We even have letters from the third party thanking us for our worthwhile contribution towards the wheelchairs . It shouldn,t prove too difficult for me to find out the lady in questions name and a few solid details . As they say watch this space .If , as has been suggested it is a hoax then Naomi House in Winchester sounds an ideal alternative and we will keep on collecting for them if they want to take them .
Jayne
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 | 01:39 PM
This NOT a SCAM (I hope) my little borthers school ahs just collected millions of these for a company to send a terminally ill child on a trip to florida to swim with dolphins (it was all arranged by the local priest- so i hope it's not a scam but you never know these days) I will find out which company the bottle tops were going to and post it later.
Dominic Shields
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 | 02:14 PM
Once again, nobody doubts your sincerity, but I still haven't seen any answers. These articles also appear to be sincere and do provide references.
After speaking to someone with a more practical approach to problem-solving than me I have done the following calculations.
I weighed 18 bottle tops which was 40g
I weighed one 2 pint plastic bottle which was 40g
(Weighing stuff this light accurately probably needs better equipment than I have)
So 1 metric tonne (1000KG) would be 450000 tops or 25000 2 pint bottles.
Taking the optimistic upper value of £60 per tonne quoted somewhere here we are looking at 4,500,000 tops to raise £600.
I have thought hard whether I can think of anything to collect that would have a lower rate of return for the effort invested but am struggling.
Rex D.
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 | 04:49 PM
Who cares about weight. If a lot of people pitched in with bottle caps and all, it would add up fast enough. Besides, someone gets something good out of the deal, and you were going to throw them away anyway, so why not help an unfortunate person in need, if you are capable that is?
Dominic Shields
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 | 03:27 AM
Absolutely help people, but that's my point, why not help them in a more productive way ? Collecting almost anything else is going to be more productive, the whole legend in this case hinges on mysterious generous benefactors, What would be the problem with these benefactors giving money for more effective schemes - such as matching every £100 in coppers raised ?
Rex D.
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 | 12:19 PM
That matching of weight/money thing is really cool, but thats not what is supposedly happening. I still say the bottle cap thing isn't all that bad of an idea. Like I said before, the bottle caps are just going to get thrown in the garbage, unless something better like this is going on. And it is not as inefficient as come claim it either. If you take thousands of people/families saving their caps, it will add up fast enough. But I agree, your matching thing is a better idea, but I don't think anyones currently doing that, so do the bottle cap thing in the mean time until someone starts matching.
Dominic Shields
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 | 12:26 PM
So the news story linked to earlier in this thread that says :
"A word of mouth charity collection has left hundreds of people across the region with thousands of worthless milk bottle tops. Staff rooms, homes and offices are full of the green, red and blue plastic lids that have been collected by people believing they would fund a child's wheelchair or artificial limb.
Now two leading UK plastics organisations are warning collectors that they are almost certainly wasting their time. Steve Webb, from waste and recycling group Waste Watch, said: "We have had quite a lot of people that have collected them and tried to cash them in but didn't find anywhere to take them. "The plastic involved is of low grade anyway and is more or less worthless compared with other plastics."
Is in your opinion incorrect ? Why do you think this ?
Rex D.
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 | 10:34 PM
Yeah, I didn't see that. That's messed up. Who started all that crap to begin with?
Dominic Shields
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 | 03:19 AM
This is the problem, everyone wades in assuming I'm a troublemaker, I'm not, I'm someone with an interest in urban legends and why people believe the things they do. In this case however I'm seriously trying to get people to discover whether their well-meaning efforts are going to waste.
Sadly things very quickly get into a "calling X a liar are you?" or "Why don't you do better ?" kind of mentality.
You only have to look through this thread to see devout beliefs but without a shred of evidence - remind you of anything?
REX D.
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 | 02:58 PM
I assumed no such thing. I want everybody aware of the fact that I never said It was or wasn't a hoax, I merely said if it was true, I don't see a damn thing wrong with it. I however do see a DAMN thing wrong with it being a hoax, wasting the time of all the people that saved bottle caps. I want to know the source of the problem, who started telling people to save bottle caps, so I can tell him he's gonna have to save his own ass.
Dominic Shields
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 | 05:39 PM
I'm sorry but you clearly haven't had the experience I have with trying in as kindly a way as possible to ask people to be more sceptical, reading things like :
"Who cares about weight. If a lot of people pitched in with bottle caps and all, it would add up fast enough"
Just makes me lose patience when all I was doing was trying to point out the absurdity of the scheme even though I knew full well that such an argument is unneccessary as the thing is a hoax.
Rex D.
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 | 06:05 PM
Right, but I wasn't saying it wasn't a hoax, just what's the harm in it. That's all I was trying to say.
Rex D.
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 | 06:12 PM
I took in mind from the start that it was a hoax, but had nothing to go on. It's that people were saying"why even do it if it is really not a hoax?" Why the hell not? If it was real, somebody would have got something good out of it. Thats why. But it is not real. So screw it. And why do you lose patience over a discussion like this? Just think to yourself--- I;m right and that's all I need to know. But not egotistically. Your not trying to save the world through this forum, are you? So why get angry, impatient, or anything like that?
Dominic Shields
in Wales
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 | 11:43 AM
This may be a duplicate message as the site has changed and my original message gone . . .
Firstly sorry, what I said was not meant as a personal attack - apologies.
Do I get angry easily ? No not really.
Am I trying to save the world ? No not really.
Do I think I'm right ? Its not about being right, its more like "What's wrong with applying a little bit of common-sense scepticism to rumours, anecdotes and things that really happened to a friend's cousin" ?
A couple of books worth reading:
"Bad Thoughts: A Guide to Clear Thinking" by Jamie Whyte
"How We Know What Isn't So" by Thomas Gilovich
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI Member
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 | 03:03 PM
OK Dom. Got ya'. I wasn't trying to be offensive, so I am sorry if I did offend you in any way. And is it just me, or has this site changed? Is it a hoax?
Mick G.
in Preston
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 | 10:47 PM
Ok,if everyone has finished arguing!Is there somebody out there thats going to leave a message with any hard facts in it. Its all very well saying I know somebody that "is doing" or "has had" but how about an address or website. Surely in the age of I.T., any cause that had been offered such benefits would be advertising somewhere for help!
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI Member
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 12:00 AM
Mick G. Nobody is arguing. If you had paid attention to the earlier threads, you would know it is a hoax. You are correct, hearsay means nothing. You will not find any websites because it isn't real. Hence the word: hoax. Nobody is funding anything. It's all crap. Would it be safe to say that we can move on to something else now? Or does somebody have somewhere new to go with this? And where the hell are the smiley's? They're fun. Don't leave me out of smiley world. I'm sure your up to your neck in this Alex, so don't take me seriously.
