Wow... this has progresed a lot. The pro ana movement is about support not recruitment of other women. I ENVY the women you don't give a crap about what they look like, because i know what HELL it is to be the way and stay the way i am. However i also ENVY the successful ana who maintains a beautiful body and a modeling/acting career. And i also imagine the depth of hell for gluttons (one of the 7 deadly sins) as described in Dante's Inferno, (thanks SC for the reminder there), i picture this painful level of hell everytime a piece of pizza calls my name, and everytime i walk into a crowded Mcdonalds and see people grossly consuming quanities of food that could satisfy a small African village for a week. Yes.... i am already in a state of hell, but i prefer my level of imaginary hell anyday over the level described for gluttons.
And i take a strange amount of pride in my hell because it has allowed be to become the way i am, way healthier and hotter than i was before i became ana. Ana has MADE me how i am, and i can't change that, but i also wouldn't want to change that. Because of ana my dance career has taken off, but i would still never wish it on anyone. However at the same time i have no respect for the women who complain all the time about their weight while they inhale chocolate and icecream and cheeseburgers.
ANA is a VERY complicated thing, and many people who are ana or pro ana have very different opinions. But most of all, don't generalize us, because you don't know us.
But to all of you who want to hate on anas, its because who just wish u hade our bodies, and now i still feel the same, that you guys can all go chow down on a Big Mac while i go to the gym.
WAY HOTTER THAN YOU
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:19 PM
Oh... and to DANGEL .... that FAT GIRLFRIENDS website is SICK ... trying get pretty people to completly let themselves go, eewww... that's some goal in life! Hope it goes nicely for you, maybe the heartattack will be a quick one.
oh, and i dont drink beer but i can down about a fifth of liquor before i go to the club, and i think the guys have always had a great time watching that... (but they ONLY get to WATCH.. no touchy touchy!)
So REYNARD.... if you don't like skinny girls, what kind of girls do u date? Or maybe you don't.. The amount of self worth is astounding once you maintain a killer body! Life is pretty good when u reach that point. Oh well, too bad for you, hope you have fun at the FAT GIRLFRIENDS site!
Jenny
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:33 PM
My point is not against people and what they do to themselves, or against this and that. I do not live in Austria, I live here in America where I'm confronted with the most horrendous food in the planet, inferior even to Ireland and northern Germany. To cook here means throwing some burgers on a hot plate or opening cans or turning on the microwave. The taste of the things is disgusting. I had to learn how to cook simple stuff because I still have the memory of my childhood and the wonderful things I ate. My mother is Italian (from Italy, not NYC) and to eat was something done in group at noon. Nobody was obese, we ate many different things but nobody was stuffed or it ever crossed my mind to eat a pint of Haagen Daas. This country is itself an immense mouth eating away more than half of the world's minerals, oil etc. and for what? In order to produce people who are very unhappy and alienated, who eat too much or too little, and OUT OF FEAR develop all sorts of narcissistic and hipocondriac synmptoms, including a propensity to introduce metal parts in their bodies, scratch themselves, implant silicone bags inside their breasts, get tatooed and martirized in all forms as to make an australian aboriginal who slices his own penis seem civilized and reasonable in comparison. For the ones who say they do not understand what I am talking about, I am talking about the respomsibility we have towards the young ones to GIVE OUR EXAMPLE and certainly NOT
be "the best you can be" because THAT is a swindle, an evil illusion who will take one away from love towards the love of a comercial image of women and man.
It is true that obesity is a national problem, and anorexia is not (yet), but both are, to say the least, a very bad example, mostly as far as values are concerned. When I speak of good cusine I am probably speaking to people who never had the opportunity of paying 200$ for a meal at Tour d'Argent in Paris, where the experience o eating whisks you to another dimension of gustative experience, having nothing whatsoever to do with schnitzels dripping with oil, margarine (?!) and butter. Who eats well will never eat too much, because eating more than enough is not eating well, but eating much, which is a totally different story.
Civilization is based on two factors: eating and the women. When eating is taken over by industry and women by publicity, we begin to live in barbarous state, and this is were we live now, in a barbarian country who treats its own people like ungulates and other countries like slaves.
I may seem crazy but take me seriously, the system wants us to be slaves, it is sucessful at
getting there, we should not do its dirty job, we must resist.
Dear, you have 4 children, may God bless you and
your children!
Anamiame
in California
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:37 PM
Jenny:
Thank you for your questions. This will have to be a couple of posts, as there is just too much information to disseminate in one post. So, here is the beginning. I am going to answer them four-fold because there are really four facets to the answer. Let me explain:
·Anorexia is a mental disorder as diagnosed in the DSMIVR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 4th version, revised). It is defined as “According to the DSM-IV, a person with Anorexia Nervosa must have the following symptoms: refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height; intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight; disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight; and amenorrhea (in postmenarcheal females). Some bingeing and purging can occur in anorexia nervosa, but this is more common in bulimia nervosa. Anorexia nervosa can be fatal - because of starvation, because of cardiac problems induced by weight-cycling, or because of other health problems related to the stress on the body.”
·Pro-Ana is defined by About.com as “Pro Anorexia (Pro Ana) is an online movement made up of websites, chat rooms and message boards that support anorexia. They are typically created by women and girls who currently suffer from anorexia and are looking for support.
· “Disordered Eating. I have to define that myself as I’m running out of time doing a full research paper. Disordered eating is odd eating habits that encompass anything that does not fit into a true diagnosis for an eating disorder and can lead to an eating disorder. For example, female athletes are at high risk as they must maintain low weights, e.g. ice-skaters. Although this is not considered a disorder, it is abnormal behaviors used to maintain low weights.
·Eating Disorders are defined by Minnesota University as categorized by three disorders as follows:
1.Compulsive Overeating: Psychological craving for food that results in uncontrollable eating.
·Eating is out of control -- may include continuous nibbling, binge eating or any combination thereof.
·Eating is frequently done to numb feelings and/or provide comfort -- usually results in increased feelings of guilt, shame, withdrawal and self deprecation.
·Life is food centered -- almost everything in a person's life revolves around food, weight, diet...
·Weight may range from being slightly overweight to obese.
·People may hoard or hide food
·Serious medical complications -- cardiovascular difficulties, respiratory problems, kidney problems...
Anamiame
in California
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:39 PM
2.Bulimia: Psychological craving for food which results in uncontrollable eating often times followed by purging.
·Eating is out of control -- includes consumption of a large number of calories followed by purging (vomiting, excessive use of laxatives, diuretics and diet pills), over-exercising, fasting or sleeping
·Eating is frequently done to numb feelings or provide comfort -- usually results in increased guilt, shame, withdrawal, and self deprecation.
·Life is food centered -- almost everything revolves around food use or non-use.
·Weight may range from 10-20 pounds under or overweight
·People may hoard, hide, steal food ...
·People experience preoccupation and obsession with body, body image and appearance. Serious medical complications -- stomach and esophagus pain, tooth decay, loss of normal bowel functions, malnutrition, electrolyte imbalance, menstrual disruption, and even death.
1.Anorexia: Willful starvation in the pursuit of slenderness.
·Eating is out of control -- includes a severe restriction of food, compulsive fasting and relentless exercising.
·Life is food centered -- intense fear and obsession about weight gain -- life revolves around the use and non-use of food -- their own and others.
·Weight is below average -- usually about 15% below average body weight.
·May hoard, hide steal food even though they don't eat -- often have definite "rituals" around eating that may appear strange to others
·People experience preoccupation with body and body image -- obsessed with dieting and thinness.
·Distorted perception of self -- "feel fat" even when thin or emaciated.
Serious medical complications: menstrual disruption, malnutrition, disruption of bowel functions, decreased body temperature, electrolyte imbalance, and death
Jenny
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:42 PM
way hotter, your mentality is deplorable. I'm hot because I like it, and man know it. I make myself diffcult but they know that in the end they will have what they want, it has very little to do with more or less wheight. I am not fat, but I'm not so thin, but no one ever mentioned my wheight to me, I would'nt pursue the conversation. Hot means to be hot not to create a hot image, which is actually "cool" not hot.
Anamiame
in California
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:49 PM
What makes me utterly confused is the status of anorexia: is it a life style?
Anorexia is not a lifestyle. Pro-Ana supporters believe it is and adhere to that. Those with disordered eating (which could include most of the US population) wouldn’t classify it as a lifestyle, but I personally would, and any eating disorder is not a lifestyle; it is not a choice; it is a disorder.
Is it a disease?
I’ve always been confused by that….I have Lupus; is it a disorder or a disease. A disease is something with a syndrome (I’m too tired to pull it up, been working on this for two hours). A disorder is just something that doesn’t work right. Those who are diagnosed with an ED, consider it a disease, just like an alcoholic considers it a disease and not a disorder. So, I think that is a matter of personal interpretation.
Is it the triumph of the will?
Anorexia, no; it is a loss of will according to the definition. Pro-Ana, yes, Disordered eating, depends on the disordered eating and ED, no; it is a disorder.
Is it a form of diet?
Anorexia—No
Pro-Ana—yes
Dis. Eating—Maybe
ED--No
Is it something one should be proud of?
Anorexia—No
Pro-Ana—to them, yes
Dis. Eating—Maybe
ED--No
I believe in civilization, not in tribal divisionism, nor I believe that you are going to hell, but I do believe that narcissism and obssession with SOMA is already hell.
What do you think?
Could you please let me know what SOMA is?
Anorexia—definitely NOT narcissism or obsession. Deflated ego if anything.
Pro-Ana—Yeah, I guess it could be
Dis. Eating—No; societal pressure most likely
ED—Definitely not.
Again, I do not know what PS is, and I think this is a very interesting site where I am learning quite a lot.
It is very complicated. Many ED’s go hand in hand with childhood trauma and abuse. Disordered Eating is more from personal goals or gains or just the busy-ness of day to day life. I’m glad you are learning. Sorry this took so long; my daughter’s temperature is still over 102. Now, the problem is, how to get to work tomorrow along with caring for her!
TTFN,
Anamiame
Jenny
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:50 PM
Dear Anamiame,
Thanks for your dissertation. It clarifies a lot of things to me.
all my best
Jenny
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 07:56 PM
Soma is the body, as in "somatic".
soak a rag in vinegar and wrap around your child's feet, it should bring the fever down.
Jenny
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 08:16 PM
way hotter,
mac donalds would not satisfy an African village, they would not eat it, they would not touch such garbage and would laugh at it. I know Africa and they know how to cook.
Anamiame
in California
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 09:07 PM
Jenny;
I'll try the vinegar. In an hour, her temp went from 101.5 to 103. If it isn't down in an hour, we're going to the ER.
TTFN....glad the info helped.
Anamiame
Kylie
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 10:02 PM
Ha. I'm pretty disgusted by what I've read on page 1, that I didn't bother to read any further.
To half of you girls who claim to be anorexic - you're anorexic and can't even spell the word? Anorexia is NOT a freaking lifestyle - it is a MENTAL DISORDER as classified in the DSM-IV psychiatric manual. If you were really anorexic, you wouldn't want to be, you'd hate it as much as the rest of us.
Project Shapeshift USED to be a collective group of educated individuals who actually DID have real eating disorders....in the past year, its degenerated into 'just another pro-ana messageboard'. I'm sorry you all had to see it at its low.
Lemming Meringue
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 | 10:57 PM
It's surprising to me that "pro-ana" is such a farfetched idea to so many people.
I personally view it as a more personalized and self governed version of Weight Watchers. Some people are overweight, some are average weight, and some are underweight. Yet all are treated with the same respect, since each member shares the same goal of attaining a body they can feel proud of. Validation is something every human craves.
An often overlooked fact is that Overeaters Anonymous is also open to anorectics (correct plural of anorexic) and bulimics.
I don't see many pro-ana sites as being much different than O.A. They help those who want to help themselves and support those losing control.
Pro-Anorexia may be a name too shocking and harsh in comparison to what actually occurs in these groups. But it's what lets us find each other and learn from each other's mistakes. There's safety in numbers. Many of us at PS can attest to this.
While I could potentially die from my disorder, my life is prolonged by the wisdom and caring advice gleaned from people in similar situations. (End sob story.)
As for other pro-ana groups, I've wittnessed some absurd behavior and advice, which is why I will have nothing to do with those particular groups.
Explore the groups and see the difference for yourself if you still find yourselves disturbed.
WAY HOTTER THAN YOU
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 12:23 AM
To the PS members: No, i am not a PS member, however i visit the GROTTO often, and have read quite a bit on the PS site
To Jenny: I meant that the AMOUNT of food that AMERICANS eat is enough to feed a African village; However since you KNOW so much about AFRICA and it's cooking, why don't you fly over there and teach the POOR ETHOPIANS how to cook.... i think that might be difficult in a country with no food, i am sure the majority there would eat your fucking arm roasted on an open fire if given the oppurtunity.
MAYBE YOU should try a meditive fast, it's great to bring u back down a little and feel that hunger in your belly to remind u of all the things you have that some people do not
J4N
in Australia
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 01:25 AM
I love that this post has turned into a (mostly) intelligent forum on the subject. I am a member of PS (xoxoxo guys) and believe that the support it offers is vital to those with ED's. Not to nitpick, but one of my closest friends is an ATSI (Australian Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander), he's a clinical pathologist and i assure you that NOTHING down there is sliced!!! kisses to all.
PS note to PS members- Someone send Jenny some of those thin plastic jelly sex bracelets, pretty please??? I suggest silver as a good colour.....
Jenny
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 03:56 AM
I'm very touched by WAY HOTTER interest in the hunger in Africa and in the way she recreates it in her own rumbling stomach sadly diggesting two micrograms of lettuce and a tea spoon of tofu.
If they, who have nothing to eat, saw that surrounded by riches some choose not to eat, would be either angry or would think that those are saints, self inflicting pennance. Is it offered to GOD this sacrifice? or to the other, the god of vanity?
I do not wear plastic bracelets, but gold.
tart with a <3
in over the rainbow.
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 08:33 AM
It's only natural for people to condemn that which they don't understand. People make judgements, assumptions and whatnot simply because they think things are one way. Being educated on what they're talking about isn't necessary - hell, if they heard it on TV it MUST be true!
The truth is, sites like PS don't perpetuate anorexia. Airbrushed magazines, obsessions with celebrity, 90 lb movie stars... THAT'S what perpetuates eating disorders. Maybe if coked out stick figures weren't what was considered the ideal of beauty, the situation would be different. But this is the society we've created for ourselves.
I've long been a member of PS and I honestly don't know what I'd do without it. It's a haven of unconditional support and information. Unless any of you have ever had an ED or battled with depression, cutting, COE, etc then you really have no basis for your opinions. The site is full of people who understand what they are all going through. I couldn't exactly go up to my friend and tell her about how I freaked out the other day because I thought my shadow looked fat. Neurotic? Yes. But aren't we all neurotic about silly things now and then?
dert
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 10:09 AM
Hello,
My name is Dert and I am one of two moderators at Project Shapeshift. I'd like to just give my own two cents if I may.
First of all, there are two of us moderators at PS. We are both adult, educated women. I have a master's degree, and the other moderator has a master's degree and a law degree. We DO NOT encourage unhealthy behaviors, such as starving, puking, cutting, laxative abuse, drug abuse, or any other destructive means.
I strongly believe that if you are working this damn hard to have a thin body, you better be healthy and strong so you can enjoy it. Consequently, both of us moderators promote exercise, a balanced diet, vitamins, etc.
That being said, we get members at our site from all walks of life. While we DO get some 13 year old girls looking to drop 10 pounds "fast!" we also have members who are students, wives and husbands, mothers, etc. Some of them are just looking to lose weight. Others are recovering from an eating disorder, such as compulsive overating, anorexia, bulemia, and many others. Others are just there to learn, make friends, and to UNDERSTAND. We get people from every dimension of the human psyche.
WE ACCEPT EVERYONE.
Look, I don't really care who the members are, where they are from, or what they look like. There's no weight limitation to be a PS member. But I WILL say that we try to educate all our members that it's possible to be thin *AND* healthy....with an emphasis on the HEALTH.
We have had a few members in the past who I would say qualify as being in the "dangerously anorexic" category. Those members I have REPEATEDLY urged to seek professional help and treatment. A few members I have actually gone out of my way to call for more information and referrals because I really felt that their health was in jeapordy.
I know it's hard when you are just browsing the web and listening to news stories, but I really don't think that you should judge a group of people without really looking into what their motivation, thoughts, and beliefs are. It may help bring you to a greater understanding of who they are and likewise help to teach you to empathise with people who are, after all, your neighbors, friends, and family.
anonymous
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 11:31 AM
There are strong differences between anorexia nervosa and "ana" or "pro-ana." The former is a disorder, the latter according to most is a lifestyle. I tend to think that ana gives people with anorexic tendencies the tools to maintain a weight where they feel comfortable, without dying from their eating disorder. Some people choose it (lifestyle), some people are chosen by it (disorder), and some people fall somewhere in between. The bottom line is that if someone can choose to be overweight and that is so acceptable in our society, why can't someone choose to be underweight? I believe we should be able to choose what our bodies look like. Even if it is detrimental to your health, so is smoking, drinking, etc., and no one is trying to ban those...
Cris
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 | 12:54 PM
I hesitated at first about commenting. But, I decided that I should voice my opinion, my point of view.
I am an active member of Project Shapeshift, but do not support the idea of Pro-ana. When I came to PS I was caught in the grasp of an eating disorder that was sucking the life out of. Although, part of me knew that I there was healthier ways to be thin, I just couldn't accept it. I did not join PS to get "tips and tricks," but I joined because I found myself suffering, utterly alone. PS gave me a place where not only could I say what I feel, it gave me so much support in striving towards a healthier lifestyle.
As stated before, there are little girls who come around thinking that having an eating disorder, or disordered eating is cool. They are not only discouraged from such dangerous behaviors, but are given facts as to why these things should not be done. The people at Shapeshit are civilized human beings. I cannot compare PS to any other Pro-ana sites, which tell girls that not eating is the answer. I do not think that Anyone at PS would want someone to go through the things that many of us have managed to live through.
Anorexia is a disease. And, while there are many that to support the idea of Pro-ana, something about the word does rub me in the wrong way. There are sites that are Pro-Ana that tell people how to purge, what laxatives work best, how to skip meals, and trick doctors. Project shapeshift is not like that. I simply feel that the mission of project shapeshift is not only persuing weight loss in a healthy manner, but also has to do with acceptance. Yes, there are people that purge, starve, and binge. But, there is always someone there to let them know that they are not alone, there are other ways to deal with things. and not to give up hope.
So, whether someone believes it is a lifestyle or a disorder. Whether they are over-weight, underweight, or just trying to be a bit healthier. I, personally, feel that Project Shapeshift is about accepting one another as we are, forming bonds with others who understand our thoughts and feelings, and having a place to go where being yourself is okay.
